Someone: Make The Case For McKenzie

Discussion in ' - Patriots Fan Forum' started by mgteich, Aug 26, 2010.

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  1. mgteich

    mgteich Veteran Supporter

    And, please use some other argument than he hasn't been given a chance. We have three young solid ILBs signed at least through 2011. Mayo on one side and Guyton and Spikes splitting the other.

    The #4 ILB gets almost no reps. In 2009, even with the injury to Mayo, the #3 ILB was included on 12% of defensive reps, the #4 on less than 1% of the defensive reps.

    This year we expect MORE reps from Mayo, and for Spikes and Guyton to split the reps on the other side. This leaves the same 1% or less for the #4.

    So, what good is a #4 ILB at all. The #4 ILB spot has been used for years as a label for a top special teamer: for Davis, for Izzo and for Alexander.
    In what way is McKenzie and upgrade over Alexander?

    I admit to ahving McKenzie on my roster. Reiss put him back after receiving such abuse after excluding him last week.
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2010
  2. BradyFTW!

    BradyFTW! Supporter Supporter

    #12 Jersey

    1) Guyton's skill-set is very limited. He's ideally a passing-down specialist, and McKenzie, who's pretty much the opposite, is a good compliment to that. As of now, none of our DEs command a double team, which makes it all the more necessary that our ILBs be able to take on guards straight-up. Guyton can't do that effectively, which makes him even more of a liability on non-passing downs. I wouldn't be surprised if the Pats keep McKenzie just to make sure that Guyton isn't rotating onto the field on running downs.

    2) Injury insurance: he ensures that Mayo will not be forced into the regular SILB role, and that Guyton won't have to become an every-down ILB by necessity. In the event that Spikes is injured or hits the rookie wall, or anything like that, his presence on the team improves both ILB positions.

    Is that worth a roster spot? I think so, although I can see the other side of the debate. either way, I see those reasons as being why he makes the team.
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2010
  3. robertweathers

    robertweathers Pro Bowl Player

    I love the kid but Reiss said it best. He hasn't been eye-popping on the field and has been a no-show on special teams.

    Thats not good.
  4. JSn

    JSn Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

    Potentially very solid depth, ie: if someone gets hurt, we still have a good 3-man rotation.

    That said, I don't dislike Alexander and think he's ok for a stop-gap at ILB if he's rotational.

    I dunno, it's a tough call to make. I guess the only thing might be potential and the fact he'll almost definitely get picked up and might be great. Lotsa maybes there, though.

    I guess he just has untapped potential. We already know what Alexander is will always be.
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2010
  5. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster Supporter

    He has far more upside than Guyton IMO. His reps have been limited due to the number of reps givento Spikes (as a rookie who will be starting this is a good thing. When given the opportunity he has done some good things in the preseason games (haven't seen him in practice). Made tackles when the ball run to his side, what stood out to me (have to review the snaps against Atl) he had 2 passes defended.

    I don't think you get rid of a young player with his skills in the case of an injury to the top 3 I would much rather have him on the field than Alexander.
  6. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Do you even lift? Supporter

    No Jersey Selected

    The bolded should end the debate. This way, Mayo stays where he belongs and Guyton doesn't have to see time on first and second down.
  7. mgteich

    mgteich Veteran Supporter

    I think the illusion is that there are three everyday, every play ILB spots. There aren't. In 2009 Mayo and Guyton played every play when they were healthy. Seau played when Mayo was down. No one else (that is Alexander) played in more than 1% of the defensive reps.

    In 2008, Bruschi and Guyton essentially shared the spot opposite Mayo, with Guyton as a passing down specialist.

    We all (including Belichick) thought that we could be upgraded by moving Guyton back to playing primarily on passing downs. The choice for the run-stopping ILB were Spikes and McKenzie. Spikes is our starter. McKenzie showed nothing.

    Backup ILB's should be top special teamers. Guyton certainly is one; besides he has shown that he is a reasonable option as a starter. The #4 ILB will get almost no reps at ILB, even if Mayo is injured (Guyton would just play more as he did last year). We don't need an injury backup for Spikes (Guyton would play more as he did last year). I suppose that we could us a backup for Guyton; but it seems we can just have Spikes play more.

    So, we know what Alexander adds in case of injury (almost zero). We know what he adds every day: a solid, actioe special teamer.

    What does McKenzie add in case of injury. I don't think he adds much. And he is NOT a top sepcial teamer.
  8. mgteich

    mgteich Veteran Supporter

    That ends the debate only if you would rather have McKenzie and Spikes starting instead of Guyton and Spikes.

    McKenzie has not shown the ability to be a starter. Guyton had done so.

    That is the debate. Apparently you are ready to start McKenzie it Mayo goes down again. I am not.

  9. patsox23

    patsox23 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

    Let's start (and end?) with this: regardless of his perceived value on S|Ts, Eric Alexander f-ing SUCKS at football. McKenzie is essentially a rookie, and is a guy who the team was said to be quite high on coming out last year. We're seriously letting him go this fast? No chance. And since when is 4 ILB enough for a 3-4 team?
  10. RayClay

    RayClay Hall of Fame Poster

    #75 Jersey

    I could find articles from three weeks ago saying how impressive McKenzie looked in camp. Now because they want Spikes to play, he's a has been.:rolleyes:

    Tough to be in show biz. Every player isn't getting a chance to shine and they aren't all going from impressive big hitter to washed up over a few weeks either.
  11. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Do you even lift? Supporter

    No Jersey Selected

    Yeah, I am. He'd be better against the run than Guyton (who was a liability in that area at times) was. I'd love to have him and Guyton on the same roster. Guyton is a pretty good coverage ILB. In the event of injury, McKenzie would come in one first and second down as well as short yardage third downs, and Guyton would come in on passing downs. I don't see any reason why that couldn't work.
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2010
  12. patsox23

    patsox23 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

    Guyton started bc of injuries and lack of depth. Puh-lease.


    #12 Jersey

    McKenzie ain't going anywhere IMO

    This is a kid who was drafted decently high who had a devastating injury as a rookie - I would think that its uncommon and not likely Belichick drops a kid who has not played a meaningful down as a pro,especially where he was drafted...its not like he was a 7th rounder

    Come on,We kept a piece of sh!t like glassman Crable for 2 years of worthlessness,what makes one think BB drops McKenzie after 1 injury?
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2010
  14. JackBauer

    JackBauer Pro Bowl Player

    FWIW, Bruschi has been pretty high on Guyton. I'd expect Guyton to start over McKenzie, but I'd also like to keep Tyrone around for a bit because a.) I think he could be a good player and b.) Eric Alexander sux0rs.
  15. reflexblue

    reflexblue Supporter Supporter

    #91 Jersey

    The kid is a third round pick with talent, bb is not going to cut a third round pick this quickly Look how long crable stuck around, I also dont understand the rush to get rid of this guy.
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2010
  16. mgteich

    mgteich Veteran Supporter

    Is your position tha McKenzie is much better than Alexander on special teams, or just in the one series a year that he would likely play at ILB?

  17. mgteich

    mgteich Veteran Supporter

    Crable would have beaten out Ninkovich in 2009 if he were healthy.

    Also, we badly needed and need young OLB's. With regard to ILB's, we have three young experienced players sharing two positions.

    Last edited: Aug 26, 2010
  18. JackBauer

    JackBauer Pro Bowl Player

    My position is that he's better ILB depth than Alexander.
  19. pdangle

    pdangle Third String But Playing on Special Teams

    What's the chance he's still not 100% due to his old injury. I mean, if he's "showing nothing" on special teams, it raise's the injury specter for me at least.

    I think he might have been a bit rusty, and didn't really know how tough was going to be compete if he wasn't 100%. Hopefully he is full-out now, as opposed to earlier in camp, and is just playing catch up. It's actually a good sign for our depth at ILB. If an injured 3rd rounder was taking reps from last year's starter and a higher round pick "natural" in a deep draft we'd be in trouble. He's about where he should be now that I think about it.

    Definitely someone to watch tonight vs. Rams. He's been tentative, but steady it seems by the reviews so far. Maybe he makes the jump. Still early in his career though.
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2010
  20. reflexblue

    reflexblue Supporter Supporter

    #91 Jersey

    McKenzie isn't going anywhere, BB was very impressed with him, he was doing very well in TC, i don't know why he ended up with the third and fourth unit when the pre-season games started. (Maybe BB knows what he has in Mckensie and want;s to evaluate other playerS at ILB) But he has great maturity and talent as a run stuffer, certainly better than Guyton.
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2010
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