SOME THOUGHTS ON TOM BRADY,HIS REFUSAL TO TURN OVER HIS PHONE

[Eric Manchester]

This might have been posted elsewhere, but here is a good article addressing this stuff:

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-s...y-was-right-to-not-share-texts-134448265.html

 

[Deus Irae]

How is this different than TB12 refusing to turn over his phone to Wells when the NFL has no right under the CBA to demand that he turn over his phone?

The CBA requires reasonable cooperation on the part of those being investigated.

 

[raduray]

The CBA requires reasonable cooperation on the part of those being investigated.

The CBA is trumped by workers rights granted by law. This will make for an interesting pissing contest.

 

[Bobsyouruncle]

The CBA requires reasonable cooperation on the part of those being investigated.

Do you think it matters that Favre was fined? Could they make the argument the NFLPA agreed by not fighting when Favre was fined? Not sure if that was prior to this CBA.

I would think the difference is that Favre's investigation specifically involved sending a text. This investigation wants texts for fishing expedition over something else.

 

[Deus Irae]

The CBA is trumped by workers rights granted by law. This will make for an interesting pissing contest.

While this will, indeed, make for an interesting pissing contest, the rights angle you're talking about is not as clear cut as your post seems to imply.

 

[Deus Irae]

Do you think it matters that Favre was fined? Could they make the argument the NFLPA agreed by not fighting when Favre was fined? Not sure if that was prior to this CBA.

I would think the difference is that Favre's investigation specifically involved sending a text. This investigation wants texts for fishing expedition over something else.

Yes, it matters, but only as a non-accepted precedent (which should actually favor Brady, since $50k, not 4 games, was the punishment). Favre never took it to court, so the courts will look at it fresh. It seems as though the question for the courts is going to be:

"Just how much of an individual's constitutional rights are sacrificed by the word 'reasonable', when used in a CBA context, and how much can that individual be punished for exercising said rights?"

 

[Rawky77]

Do you think it matters that Favre was fined? Could they make the argument the NFLPA agreed by not fighting when Favre was fined? Not sure if that was prior to this CBA.

I would think the difference is that Favre's investigation specifically involved sending a text. This investigation wants texts for fishing expedition over something else.

But the fact remains that Favre refused to turn over his phone, i.e. non cooperation, and was fined a mere 50k. TB12 however was suspended for 4 games. Huge difference that is without prior discipline history to support it.

 

[DW Toys]

Yes, it matters, but only as a non-accepted precedent (which should actually favor Brady, since $50k, not 4 games, was the punishment). Favre never took it to court, so the courts will look at it fresh. It seems as though the question for the courts is going to be:

"Just how much of an individual's constitutional rights are sacrificed by the word 'reasonable', when used in a CBA context, and how much can that individual be punished for exercising said rights?"

OK, I apologize if someone already brought this up but what of this scenario. Suppose TB had wiped his phone, tablet and computer clean of past texts etc. Many people do trash those old texts. Does that make TB guilty? Not with us but does Fast Teddy then have the right to insinuate this was evil doing? It would explain why there was no surrender. Surrender what "Jamie"?

How would a man like Brady, who get thousands of text per week, know he would need to hold on to those oh so valuable ball boy texts? I have to dump texts because I can't send or receive anymore.

The women who is running for President wiped all of hers. No harm no foul on her end according to the lib media.

Yet isn't the same media or their parent companies wanting to crucify TB? All media is involved.

I am not a computer wizz, but sitting down with Yee and each starring on TB's phone.....what if there was nothing on it? Does Teddy say, "Lets get some techs in here and blow up your server?"

DW Toys

 

[h0c2000]

favre doesn't turn his cell phone over in the whole jenn sterger thing and he gets a 50K fine.

Also, remember that Favre's accusation involved him USING that cell phone to commit his violation. Tom giving up the phone is just for a fishing exercise by NFL lawyers. Yes, Ted Wells is being paid by the NFL as an attorney, not an investigator.

 

[Deus Irae]

OK, I apologize if someone already brought this up but what of this scenario. Suppose TB had wiped his phone, tablet and computer clean of past texts etc. Many people do trash those old texts. Does that make TB guilty? Not with us but does Fast Teddy then have the right to insinuate this was evil doing? It would explain why there was no surrender. Surrender what "Jamie"?

How would a man like Brady, who get thousands of text per week, know he would need to hold on to those oh so valuable ball boy texts? I have to dump texts because I can't send or receive anymore.

The women who is running for President wiped all of hers. No harm no foul on her end according to the lib media.

Yet isn't the same media or their parent companies wanting to crucify TB? All media is involved.

I am not a computer wizz, but sitting down with Yee and each starring on TB's phone.....what if there was nothing on it? Does Teddy say, "Lets get some techs in here and blow up your server?"

DW Toys

There are programs that can recover deleted texts.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

OK, I apologize if someone already brought this up but what of this scenario. Suppose TB had wiped his phone, tablet and computer clean of past texts etc. Many people do trash those old texts. Does that make TB guilty? ...

I am not a computer wizz, but sitting down with Yee and each starring on TB's phone.....what if there was nothing on it? Does Teddy say, "Lets get some techs in here and blow up your server?"

DW Toys

Too funny!
I bet you believe that if you delete something on your PC it's gone forever too, eh?

 

[Bobsyouruncle]

Too funny!
I bet you believe that if you delete something on your PC it's gone forever too, eh?

Sure but I think he's drawing a distinction here. Brady allowing Ted to look at his texts is not the same as Brady allowing him to take possession of his phone for a forensic investigation. I don't think anything short of a forensic investigation would satisfy Wells so non-cooperation was always a foregone conclusion.

Brady could just as well have chucked his phone into a fire and got a new one as well, replacing phones is hardly rare or suspicious then the texts would be gone forever (certainly the phone company won't give them to Wells) in which case he still would have not cooperated. I suspect all roads lead to non-cooperation. Wells is a true believer so lack of evidence to him is just proof someone is hiding evidence.

 

[Deus Irae]

Brady allowing Ted to look at his texts is not the same as Brady allowing him to take possession of his phone for a forensic investigation. I don't think anything short of a forensic investigation would satisfy Wells so non-cooperation was always a foregone conclusion.

Yes

 

[DW Toys]

Sure but I think he's drawing a distinction here. Brady allowing Ted to look at his texts is not the same as Brady allowing him to take possession of his phone for a forensic investigation. I don't think anything short of a forensic investigation would satisfy Wells so non-cooperation was always a foregone conclusion.

Brady could just as well have chucked his phone into a fire and got a new one as well, replacing phones is hardly rare or suspicious then the texts would be gone forever (certainly the phone company won't give them to Wells) in which case he still would have not cooperated. I suspect all roads lead to non-cooperation. Wells is a true believer so lack of evidence to him is just proof someone is hiding evidence.

You are right. I understand and stated that they can be checked from servers, but according to Teddy, he wanted them while TB and Yee were meeting with him. No texts to show and no court order (or even from the NFL) to request forensic discovery. Thank you for the interpretation Bob.
DW Toys

 

[RxJock1120]

How does a guy (Troy Vincent) who can only hand out punishments for unnecessary roughness penalties hand out the stiffest penalty in the history of the NFL?

The justification would be that Goodell delegated this power to Vincent, which I believe is within his right. Now I am not suggesting that Goodell even has the right to punish Brady in this instance, with the reason already eloquently stated in the original post. What I am referring to is Goodell ' s general right to punish a player for detrimental conduct.

Oh boy do I hope Brady's appeal finally deals Roger that final fateful blow he has certainly deserved!!!

 

[nowayback]

No way Brady should have given his phone to the "leakers" . Now lets say his lawyer and him went over the "relevant" texts and handed them over. Wells has his texts to JJ , suppose some of the "relevant" ones were not what was handed over? So then either wells assumes guilt or a maybe endless back and forth process starts. And maybe a 2nd interview request. Maybe there are also a few FU's about godell and wells. maybe there was even a joke about deflating.
You can be sure as we have seen that wells would interpret them how he wanted and godell would agree.

 

[patsfaninpa]

Also, remember that Favre's accusation involved him USING that cell phone to commit his violation. Tom giving up the phone is just for a fishing exercise by NFL lawyers. Yes, Ted Wells is being paid by the NFL as an attorney, not an investigator.

I'm sure Favre qb'ing the J-E-S-T had nothing to do with his penalty.

 

[reflexblue]

Which is why Kessler is licking his chops 24/7 for a chance to go to court. I highly doubt it would even get this far, but if it did, the NFL could be declared a monopoly and under federal law can be broken up if deemed one. Just like they did to Bell Telephone. This whole thing has the potential to totally unravel which is why I don't understand why Goodell even allowed to get to this level.

Because hes really a dummy who thinks hes untouchable, he stumbles from one fiasco to another. He always manages to avoid being fired because his fiascos are in the NFL,and he can manage them for that reason. But one of these poor descisions is going to come back and bite him, and this might be the one. If brady takes this far enough in court he could expose what really happened in deflategate. That it was a set up to disgrace the patriots, and the league ofice was in on it. Imagine that hitting the news, front office managment trying to discredit and disgrace one of the greatest players and franchise of all time over some petty bulsht involving jealousy and rivelry. It would be a black eye of epic magnatude for goodell and the nfl.

 

[5thRing-Hunt]

Even if Brady had turned over his phone the wells reort would have said he was uncooperative by not admitting guilt. It would have said it was still more probable he knew and he would have been punished. This was gonna happen either way. It wasn't explained to Brady in 2000 that he wasn't allowed to beat on every team in the league for a couple decades. It wasn't explained that he wasn't allowed to make it to to the super bowl one out of every two years and win the division every year. It wasn't explained that he wasn't allowed to beat the league's best defense with small receivers. Now he's getting punished and all the people he has caused pain to by eliminating their teams can yell cheater and feel a little better

 

[rochrist]

Basically it's nazi Germany and communist Russia combined

Jesus, way to go WAY over the top there!