Some Reality Regarding Our Defense

[shmessy]

Your problem is you have zero idea what you are watching and have zero ability to understand what's happening.

As a result, you are polluting threads with complete nonsense and ruining the discussion.

The problem is further compounded in that your presense is inviting the other village idiots to double down on this nonsense.

Although I agree with your sdide of the RELEVANT argument, this kind of posting where you give ZERO on point argument and just throw three sentences of personal attack at someone who disagrees with you is unacceptable.

Argue your point and stop the personal attacks. No one reads that and says "You know what? PatsfaninPittsburgh just called someone a village idiot.....hmmmmm, maybe his point about the defense is right".

If you can't straighten up, then I have no choice but to lock you out of this thread.

 

[Sciz]

There's a ton of optimism coming from that DL group so far this season. Peppers, Carter, Anderson, and then just now Wilfork have all sounded really optimistic about the defense and the pass rush especially, saying that it is a work in progress that is going to improve.

 

[Triple-T]

The Patriots are last in the league in pass defense and 18th in run defense. I believe that thay are either 31 or 32 in total defense and they are last in points allowed. Put it all together and this defense SUCKS. Injuries haven't really been that bad, the only notable injury before last week was Hanesworth and Wright, and he was only playing about 20 snaps a game. Wright is a loss, but he isn't irreplaceable.

They are 21st in points allowed. Hanging with the likes of Packers(18), Jets(15 - .7ppg diff), bears(20),saints (22), etc. Yards are really irrelevant.

Chung, Bodden, Dowling & Pryor are not notable?

I think the D has issues, but I'm not even going to pretend that I know what any of the Pats' coaches know. However, they are winning the games fairly easily and that's what matters. I'm really not too worried.

 

[BradyManny]

How many of our top 15 defensive players were out injured on Sunday?
How many of those playing were wearing casts or braces?

We have a bunch of injured and new players trying to learn a new defense, after having a much shortened off-season. They will improve. For example, the stopping of the best rushing offense in the nfl was indeed impressive. Would last year's defense be expected to do as well?

I agree. I don't know why anyone feels the need to sugarcoat the play of this defense to this point. The defense is dramatically hindered by injury and its hard to field a lineup of quality NFL defensive players when you have this many guys out. As it is, realistically, how many of the guys who lined up as our starting D on Sunday would be starting for other teams right now? Just look at how many snaps guys like Molden, Barret, Brown, etc. are playing.

 

[Uncle Rico]

Talk about bend-don't break: ESPN.com/Boston shows the Pats Pass D (as measured by opponents' QBR) as 32nd outside the Red Zone, first inside it.

New England Patriots defense not as bad as numbers indicate - ESPN Boston

New England has forced three red zone turnovers, which leads the NFL. The Patriots could be in a far different place had those drives ended in touchdow.

They also have the Pats giving up the most passing yards in history through four games, with Oakland's garbage-time drive at the end last week pushing them over the top.

personally I wouldn't mind seeing some improvement on the yardage, but this continues to be a big-play defense, as it was last year, and that's a good characteristic to have.

 

[Brady-To-Branch]

How many of our top 15 defensive players were out injured on Sunday?
How many of those playing were wearing casts or braces?

We have a bunch of injured and new players trying to learn a new defense, after having a much shortened off-season. They will improve. For example, the stopping of the best rushing offense in the nfl was indeed impressive. Would last year's defense be expected to do as well?

The team won't miss Mayo as much as the majority believes. LBs who are good against the run and are a liability in pass coverage aren't hard to replace. Moreover, Spikes is finally starting to emerge from BB's doghouse.

 

[condon84]

The team won't miss Mayo as much as the majority believes. LBs who are good against the run and are a liability in pass coverage aren't hard to replace. Moreover, Spikes is finally starting to emerge from BB's doghouse.

I agree with this. So far, Mayo has not had the impact we all thought he'd be making going into this season. Now if he was making impact plays after impact plays and now suddenly he's gone for a while, then I can see why there would be cause for concern.

The main concern is the communications issue. Who's going to be making calls and is that person going to be able to call the right calls. I have faith that BB will make sure whoever this person is, will be qualified and prepared.

 

[Kid~Brady]

This kills me

Patriots Defense, 2011 Ranks
Opp QBR Rank

1. In Red Zone 3.0 1st
2. Outside Red Zone 82.8 32nd

 

[patsfaninpittsburgh]

This kills me

Patriots Defense, 2011 Ranks
Opp QBR Rank

1. In Red Zone 3.0 1st
2. Outside Red Zone 82.8 32nd

Red Zone is irrelavent.

I learned that at patsfans.com.

 

[RIpats88]

something interesting to note is that the other team letting up the 2nd most passing yards per game is the.....wait for it...Green bay packers

and this is the team everyone is saying is the best team in football...imo right now they are a mirror image of the patriots. no ones taking notice because they are 4-0

 

[patsfaninpittsburgh]

Talk about bend-don't break: ESPN.com/Boston shows the Pats Pass D (as measured by opponents' QBR) as 32nd outside the Red Zone, first inside it.

New England Patriots defense not as bad as numbers indicate - ESPN Boston



They also have the Pats giving up the most passing yards in history through four games, with Oakland's garbage-time drive at the end last week pushing them over the top.

personally I wouldn't mind seeing some improvement on the yardage, but this continues to be a big-play defense, as it was last year, and that's a good characteristic to have.

Looking at the week 4 stats, we are the only team that has played 3 top 10 offenses and the stats surrendered are not the oultliers to elevate the opponents.

One stat I would find interesting is percentage of yards possible vs actually gained. If the opponent gets 13 or 14 drives a game, yardage would be skewed. Assuming an average 20 yard line start, a 14 drive game could have a team gain over 400 yards and never cross mid field.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

This kills me

Patriots Defense, 2011 Ranks
Opp QBR Rank

1. In Red Zone 3.0 1st
2. Outside Red Zone 82.8 32nd

Amazing stat. Having a leaky pass defense is a bit of a worry. But when you can stop the run and play well in the red zone, those are far more important qualities in a defense IMO. Let's hope we can maintain our play in those areas as we improve our pass defense.

 

[Metaphors]

One stat I would find interesting is percentage of yards possible vs actually gained. If the opponent gets 13 or 14 drives a game, yardage would be skewed. Assuming an average 20 yard line start, a 14 drive game could have a team gain over 400 yards and never cross mid field.

You make a good point but that doesn't seem to be the case here. Opposing offenses are getting to the Pats side of the field far more frequently than they should.

I find that the Pats defense is nearly impossible to evaluate at this point since:

1) They have kept teams relatively in check in the 1st half (10 pts or less). If they were a dumpster fire, at least one team of the 4 would have dropped 2 TDs on them.

2) Opposing offenses have not taken a snap (extra points excluded) with the lead. About half of the time they are snapping the ball down 2 scores.

The Pats defense has faced 7 2nd half drives with a tied score or up by one score:

MIA - TD after Brady pick. Hard to complain about a 9 yard drive
MIA - FG...long drive but a red zone stop
SD - Fumble after failed Pats 4th down near midfield. Huge stop
BUF - Punt, 3-n-out
BUF - Punt, 3-n-out
BUF - TD on long drive after Brady red zone pick. Long PI call a gut punch
BUF - FG to lose game. This was the killer drive on this list
OAK - None

So when the Pats have their backs against the wall in the 2nd half, it has been kind of a mixed bag. Take away the PI call against Buffalo and the picture is likely much different. Other than the last 2 drives in Buffalo, the other 5 are either excellent (two 3-n-out and a big turnover), not too bad (red zone stop for a FG) or understandable (short TD drive after a turnover).

These are the types of drives you want to evaluate since the context (2nd half, close game) is pretty clear and the variables (exchanging yards for time, playing prevent) are eliminated.

 

[Patriot_in_NY]

This kills me

Patriots Defense, 2011 Ranks
Opp QBR Rank

1. In Red Zone 3.0 1st
2. Outside Red Zone 82.8 32nd

Stop with your rational stats.......... They are ruining my enjoyment of wallowing for hours on end about how terrible this defense is and how much more superior I am then BB at personnel management. There is nothing like the satisfaction of being a internet GM and you posting real stats really messes up that experience.

Mods, isn't there anything we can do to stop these people who insist of talking about irrelevant things like points allowed and red zone defense. GEEEEZ.

 

[patsfaninpittsburgh]

You make a good point but that doesn't seem to be the case here. Opposing offenses are getting to the Pats side of the field far more frequently than they should.

I find that the Pats defense is nearly impossible to evaluate at this point since:

1) They have kept teams relatively in check in the 1st half (10 pts or less). If they were a dumpster fire, at least one team of the 4 would have dropped 2 TDs on them.

2) Opposing offenses have not taken a snap (extra points excluded) with the lead. About half of the time they are snapping the ball down 2 scores.

The Pats defense has faced 7 2nd half drives with a tied score or up by one score:

MIA - TD after Brady pick. Hard to complain about a 9 yard drive
MIA - FG...long drive but a red zone stop
SD - Fumble after failed Pats 4th down near midfield. Huge stop
BUF - Punt, 3-n-out
BUF - Punt, 3-n-out
BUF - TD on long drive after Brady red zone pick. Long PI call a gut punch
BUF - FG to lose game. This was the killer drive on this list
OAK - None

So when the Pats have their backs against the wall in the 2nd half, it has been kind of a mixed bag. Take away the PI call against Buffalo and the picture is likely much different. Other than the last 2 drives in Buffalo, the other 5 are either excellent (two 3-n-out and a big turnover), not too bad (red zone stop for a FG) or understandable (short TD drive after a turnover).

These are the types of drives you want to evaluate since the context (2nd half, close game) is pretty clear and the variables (exchanging yards for time, playing prevent) are eliminated.

I agree with your analysis as being most relavent.

However, yards is becoming an archiac measurement but it's also a fixation.

I care about turnovers, red zone, and percentages on drive outcome.

Before the game, I also try to predict the gameplan and then look at situational football.

I predicted we wouldn't blitz much against Oakland. The Raider line has been very good this year and with Bodden/Dowling out it seemed smarter to play zone and let Campbell be Campbell without McFadden screens.

 

[Kid~Brady]

Stop with your rational stats.......... They are ruining my enjoyment of wallowing for hours on end about how terrible this defense is and how much more superior I am then BB at personnel management. There is nothing like the satisfaction of being a internet GM and you posting real stats really messes up that experience.

Mods, isn't there anything we can do to stop these people who insist of talking about irrelevant things like points allowed and red zone defense. GEEEEZ.

Lol ummm, these actually arent my stats. I saw them on the Boston. blog and decided to post them in the thread that relates to our defense being not as bad as it seems.

Sorry for contributing to the thread. Won't happen again.

 

[Deus Irae]

This kills me

Patriots Defense, 2011 Ranks
Opp QBR Rank

1. In Red Zone 3.0 1st
2. Outside Red Zone 82.8 32nd

And that equals 20th in scoring defense.

 

[shmessy]

And that equals 20th in scoring defense.

....after playing 75% of their games on the road.

....after playing 75% of their games against top 10 offenses.





Perspective.........

 

[Deus Irae]

....after playing 75% of their games on the road.

....after playing 75% of their games against top 10 offenses.





Perspective.........

After getting a gift INT in the redzone thrown by Campbell. After allowing Chad Henne to throw for more than 400 yards. After giving up no fewer than 448 yards per game. After failing to hold the lead against the Bills and costing the team a game it should have won. After helping to put those offenses in the top 10 of the NFL.




Perspective..........

 

[BradyFTW!]

This kills me

Patriots Defense, 2011 Ranks
Opp QBR Rank

1. In Red Zone 3.0 1st
2. Outside Red Zone 82.8 32nd

That is really interesting. I'm still not thrilled about being 32nd on the other 80 yards of the field, but that definitely lessens the sting a whole lot, and matches up quite well with what most of us have thought we've been seeing.