Some Reality Regarding Our Defense

[mgteich]

In the three SB teams, we were 24th, 7th and 9th in yards allowed. We were 6th, 7th, and 2nd in points allowed.

IMHO, if we focus on being in the top 10 in points allowed, we'll be fine, given that our offense is so good at scoring points.

A new stat is games in which points scored exceed points allowed. We have done well at this stat over the past 10 years, even with our "lousy" defenses.

This is reality: Vince Wilfork is second on the team in interceptions. Since I've been told repeatedly around here that we're somehow intentionally allowing a ton of yards through the air in favor of getting our hands on turnovers, that statistic would seem to be very troubling. So not only is our pass defense equal to a strainer, but our second leading interceptor is a 375 pound defensive lineman. :ugh:

I still don't understand how some of you could watch our dynasty defenses (yes, we did have defenses that both limited yardage and snagged turnovers after Polian put his mark on the league) and think that this one is doing just fine. Yes, getting some of our injured players (Haynesworth) back could change that (and quickly), but right now they look about two steps too slow.

 

[patsfaninpittsburgh]

In the three SB teams, we were 24th, 7th and 9th in yards allowed. We were 6th, 7th, and 2nd in point allowed.

IMHO, if we focus on being in the top 10 in points allowed, we'll be fine, given that our offense is so good at scoring points.

A new stat is games in which points scored exceeded points allowed. We jahve done well at this stat over the past 10 years.

You're WAY OVER his head on that one.

Explanation is futile.

 

[Deus Irae]

In the three SB teams, we were 24th, 7th and 9th in yards allowed. We were 6th, 7th, and 2nd in points allowed.

IMHO, if we focus on being in the top 10 in points allowed, we'll be fine, given that our offense is so good at scoring points.

A new stat is games in which points scored exceed points allowed. We have done well at this stat over the past 10 years, even with our "lousy" defenses.

How's the new stat been working out in the playoffs since 2008, when the defense began it's decline?

 

[mgteich]

Do you believe that the declining quality of the defense is the primary reason why we have lost playoff games since 2005? Certainly it is not the only reason.

I agree that we should be upgrading our defense, and that we have a long way to go. The reality is that we were a 14-2 team last year.

You are correct. We need to examine all our losses in the playoffs and correct what we can. I certainly believe that Belichick has worked on improving the OL and securing a #3 receiver. He has also worked on a plan to have enough healthy running backs for the playoffs, although I think that a fullback would help. He has also corrected the lack of quality tight ends that has plagued us in the past.

How's the new stat been working out in the playoffs since 2008, when the defense began it's decline?

 

[E Belichick Unum]

Ahhh no, complete, utter nonsense.

These teams are not good offensively, are not well coached, nor are they adapt at scoring points. Also, none of the four have shown any particular ability to play defense.

Both San Diego and Oakland are better than all four of these teams.

Here is the breakdown for the first 4 games. There are a number of things that jump out at you, total yards are unacceptable and every team is throwing on the Pats for a reason. Two games in a row without a sack, that spells big trouble winning unless TB plays at MVP level. That is too much to ask,

Week 1
Henne 30/49 416 Yards 19 first downs passing 6 rushing 488 Total Net Yards

Week 2
Rivers 29/40 378 Yards 20 First Downs passing 5 Rushing 470 Net Yards 83% third down efficiency

Week 3
Fitzpatrick 27/40 369 Yards 16 First downs passing 4 rushing 448 Total Net Yards 36% third down efficiency

Week 4
Campbell 25/39 344 Yards 15 First downs passing 8 Rushing 504 Net yards 69% third down efficiency

 

[bigfandan]

The part of keeping the game close.
They gave up TDs instead of FGs.

What part of last years post season exit is on the D. If they get to where they were at the end of last year, I'm ok with that....

 

[bigfandan]

Sanchez QB rating >120.

Here is the stat of last season's Patriots playoff game 0-0-0.
0 QB pressures
0 QB hits
0 QB Sacks

You cannot win games by throwing an effort like that at the opposing team. Look at the Buffalo game, look at last week's Raiders game, no pressure equals 100+ QB ratings.

 

[cstjohn17]

2006 Colts

The 2006 Colts had a historically bad rushing defense but pulled themselves together during the playoff run.

The Patriots can do the same, it is not much to hand my hat on but it is something....

 

[MAYOnnaise]

Re: 2006 Colts

Great thread bro. :rocker:

:bricks:

 

[Major **********]

Re: 2006 Colts

Its our pass defense that worries me, not the rush one.

 

[Triple-T]

Here is the breakdown for the first 4 games. There are a number of things that jump out at you, total yards are unacceptable and every team is throwing on the Pats for a reason. Two games in a row without a sack, that spells big trouble winning unless TB plays at MVP level. That is too much to ask,

Week 1
Henne 30/49 416 Yards 19 first downs passing 6 rushing 488 Total Net Yards

Week 2
Rivers 29/40 378 Yards 20 First Downs passing 5 Rushing 470 Net Yards 83% third down efficiency

Week 3
Fitzpatrick 27/40 369 Yards 16 First downs passing 4 rushing 448 Total Net Yards 36% third down efficiency

Week 4
Campbell 25/39 344 Yards 15 First downs passing 8 Rushing 504 Net yards 69% third down efficiency

Here is another stat from the first 4 games. The pats have only been trailing collectively for under 8 minutes in all of those games. Remove Brady's 4 int game and they would have won them all. Try to keep it in perspective.

 

[Deus Irae]

Do you believe that the declining quality of the defense is the primary reason why we have lost playoff games since 2005? Certainly it is not the only reason.

I agree that we should be upgrading our defense, and that we have a long way to go. The reality is that we were a 14-2 team last year.

You are correct. We need to examine all our losses in the playoffs and correct what we can. I certainly believe that Belichick has worked on improving the OL and securing a #3 receiver. He has also worked on a plan to have enough healthy running backs for the playoffs, although I think that a fullback would help. He has also corrected the lack of quality tight ends that has plagued us in the past.

I believe that BB has made it pretty clear that he finds the defense to have been the issue. The man got rid of Butler, Sanders, Wilhite and Meriweather, and he had moved on from Warren until an injury on the line occured. He switched from the 3-4 to the 4-3, switched from zone coverage in the backfield to man (which he seems to be retreating from now that McCourty has had such a rough start), and he brought in a bunch of players who have a reputation for either getting to the QB or collapsing the pocket. You are, naturally, welcome to presume that all that turnover in a shortened offseason was actually a sign of supreme confidence in the previous defense. You'll have to forgive me if I don't agree with such a theory.

 

[Kontradiction]

In the three SB teams, we were 24th, 7th and 9th in yards allowed. We were 6th, 7th, and 2nd in points allowed.

IMHO, if we focus on being in the top 10 in points allowed, we'll be fine, given that our offense is so good at scoring points.

A new stat is games in which points scored exceed points allowed. We have done well at this stat over the past 10 years, even with our "lousy" defenses.

And we were also high in turnover ratio as well. Those 2003/2004, and even 2006 and 2007, defenses were proficient in limiting the amount of yardage they allowed, limiting the amount of points they allowed, and getting their hands on turnovers.

The goal for this season is to have the best team giving the best results possible on all three sides of the ball. Belichick has stressed this since the beginning of his time here, let alone in the offseason. It's a given that, at some point, some team in this league is going to be able to slow our offense down or even shut it down for major parts of a game. With the amount of yardage we've been allowing through the air, it would be hard for us to give the ball back to our offense and Brady with more opportunities to score against what would prove to be a tough defense. You're right, points matter. Would you be comfortable with this defense taking the field if the offense was held to, say, 14 points against another good all around team (like the ones we would see in the playoffs)? I wouldn't. The way the defense has been playing, we would most likely lose that game.

What's troubling and sad (but also good to think about) at the same time is this defense has a lot of potential if healthy.

 

[Kontradiction]

Here is another stat from the first 4 games. The pats have only been trailing collectively for under 8 minutes in all of those games. Remove Brady's 4 int game and they would have won them all. Try to keep it in perspective.

The offense is what got us all of those W's, and they are also one of many reasons for that loss. The defenses contributions of late have been minimal, to say the least.

 

[Bostonian1962]

How many times since 2001 has this team been decimated by injuries? ALOT! In two of the Championship years, they lead the league in player time lost to injury.

I'm sure the injuries don't help, but have you seen the opposing QBs standing back there with all day to throw, play after play? It's painful to watch. Have you seen the horrible angles some of our DBs take to the ball? Have you seen their lack of ball skills?

Yes, this could possibly be turned around, but up until now they have been horrible, and I don't think it's because of injuries.

 

[E Belichick Unum]

Here is another stat from the first 4 games. The pats have only been trailing collectively for under 8 minutes in all of those games. Remove Brady's 4 int game and they would have won them all. Try to keep it in perspective.

I don't think it will continue unless something changes. I am as big a Pats suck up as anybody in New England, but I refuse to overlook what I believe will be fatal flaws. Tom Brady has been spectacular, he has single handedly been responsible for the final outcome of every game. What happens if, say this week, Ryan comes up with a plan that makes Brady look ordinary again? What happens they sack Brady 5 times, hit him 7 more and pressure him 15 time? That would mean that on about every other drop back, he would have a Jet in his face. Tom Brady will become tom brady and the defense is not capable of winning a game that Tom Brady doesn't play well in.

If the Patriots go 11 and 5 and make the playoffs, they did their job, but with this defense do you really believe that they could beat another playoff team? The name on this thread is "Some Reality Regarding Our Defense". What I am giving you is reality. I am not inventing stats, I am not making anything look better or worse than it really is. The Patriots are last in the league in pass defense and 18th in run defense. I believe that thay are either 31 or 32 in total defense and they are last in points allowed. Put it all together and this defense SUCKS. Injuries haven't really been that bad, the only notable injury before last week was Hanesworth and Wright, and he was only playing about 20 snaps a game. Wright is a loss, but he isn't irreplaceable.

I really believe that this is a result of bad coaching, the players should be able to apply pressure early in the season. Older usually players start to run out of gas late in the season, these guys never had any gas. What is needed is a fresh perspective and a couple of new schemes. When the Pats played Tampa in preseason they were inventive and motivated and dominant. They haven't had a sack in two games and have only 6 on the year, 4 in the opener. Their cornerbacks are getting beat over the top on plays that take a long time to set up. The quarterbacks who have played against them have had career days, this defense even made Jason Campbell look good.

The reality about this defense is that it isn't very good right now, and there is nothing that I have seen that inspires optimism they will get markedly better any time soon. I would rather be talking about how dominant TB has been, or how silly Gronkowski is making opposing safeties look. But instead I am *****ing about a bad defense.

 

[patsfaninpittsburgh]

I don't think it will continue unless something changes. I am as big a Pats suck up as anybody in New England, but I refuse to overlook what I believe will be fatal flaws. Tom Brady has been spectacular, he has single handedly been responsible for the final outcome of every game. What happens if, say this week, Ryan comes up with a plan that makes Brady look ordinary again? What happens they sack Brady 5 times, hit him 7 more and pressure him 15 time? That would mean that on about every other drop back, he would have a Jet in his face. Tom Brady will become tom brady and the defense is not capable of winning a game that Tom Brady doesn't play well in.

If the Patriots go 11 and 5 and make the playoffs, they did their job, but with this defense do you really believe that they could beat another playoff team? The name on this thread is "Some Reality Regarding Our Defense". What I am giving you is reality. I am not inventing stats, I am not making anything look better or worse than it really is. The Patriots are last in the league in pass defense and 18th in run defense. I believe that thay are either 31 or 32 in total defense and they are last in points allowed. Put it all together and this defense SUCKS. Injuries haven't really been that bad, the only notable injury before last week was Hanesworth and Wright, and he was only playing about 20 snaps a game. Wright is a loss, but he isn't irreplaceable.

I really believe that this is a result of bad coaching, the players should be able to apply pressure early in the season. Older usually players start to run out of gas late in the season, these guys never had any gas. What is needed is a fresh perspective and a couple of new schemes. When the Pats played Tampa in preseason they were inventive and motivated and dominant. They haven't had a sack in two games and have only 6 on the year, 4 in the opener. Their cornerbacks are getting beat over the top on plays that take a long time to set up. The quarterbacks who have played against them have had career days, this defense even made Jason Campbell look good.

The reality about this defense is that it isn't very good right now, and there is nothing that I have seen that inspires optimism they will get markedly better any time soon. I would rather be talking about how dominant TB has been, or how silly Gronkowski is making opposing safeties look. But instead I am *****ing about a bad defense.

Your problem is you have zero idea what you are watching and have zero ability to understand what's happening.

As a result, you are polluting threads with complete nonsense and ruining the discussion.

The problem is further compounded in that your presense is inviting the other village idiots to double down on this nonsense.

 

[JJDChE]

Here is the breakdown for the first 4 games. There are a number of things that jump out at you, total yards are unacceptable and every team is throwing on the Pats for a reason. Two games in a row without a sack, that spells big trouble winning unless TB plays at MVP level. That is too much to ask,

Week 1
Henne 30/49 416 Yards 19 first downs passing 6 rushing 488 Total Net Yards

Week 2
Rivers 29/40 378 Yards 20 First Downs passing 5 Rushing 470 Net Yards 83% third down efficiency

Week 3
Fitzpatrick 27/40 369 Yards 16 First downs passing 4 rushing 448 Total Net Yards 36% third down efficiency

Week 4
Campbell 25/39 344 Yards 15 First downs passing 8 Rushing 504 Net yards 69% third down efficiency

Look like their pass defense is getting better each week!

Yards: 416 - 378 - 369 - 344.
Comp %: 61.2% - 72.5% - 67.5% - 64.1%
Passing First downs: 19 - 20 - 16 - 15

Everything is trending down. Maybe we'll see only 330 this week! We'll have them down into the 200s by midseason. I like the direction this is going!

BTW, is it really too much to ask for the NFL MVP to play at NFL MVP level?

EDIT to add: Jason Campbell had 245 yds passing with 1:16 left last week. That's another positive sign in my book.

 

[JJDChE]

The reality about this defense is that it isn't very good right now, and there is nothing that I have seen that inspires optimism they will get markedly better any time soon. I would rather be talking about how dominant TB has been, or how silly Gronkowski is making opposing safeties look. But instead I am *****ing about a bad defense.

We all agree that the defense isn't playing well right now, but if there really isn't anything that gives you optimism then you are intentionally ignoring the facts.

 

[mgteich]

Do we understand that we would be 4-0 if Brady had ONLY three interceptions against Buffalo? Do we understand that we have the best record in the AFC and one of the 2 best teams in the AFC by almost everyone's analysis except for those on this board?

Sure, we need to improve; but, this CURRENT team is good enough to be in the Conference Championship.