Welcome to PatsFans.com

Some more tidbits on Barwin

Discussion in 'Patriots Draft Talk' started by ctpatsfan77, Apr 4, 2009.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. ctpatsfan77

    ctpatsfan77 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2005
    Messages:
    21,139
    Likes Received:
    359
    Ratings:
    +966 / 17 / -8

    #3 Jersey

    A great article from Scout.com, which goes into his mindset and motivation.

    It also shows that Barwin's parents are no dummies. :)

    Hmmm. . . . I wonder who he might be talking about? :)

    * * *

    And a quick note from Michael Abromowitz at The Football Expert:

     
  2. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    May 1, 2008
    Messages:
    13,643
    Likes Received:
    660
    Ratings:
    +1,866 / 6 / -6

    Nice read. It highlights a lot of reasons Barwin is special - athleticism, versatility, personality, etc.

    There's no doubt in my mind that Barwin is just as special this year as Mayo was last year. He's a "perfect storm" at OLB for the Pats in terms of his size, physical ability, versatility, skills and intangibles. The whole package. I think he's a top 10 talent, and with another year on defense he would have been a consensus top 10 pick. People who still think he's a 2nd round prospect are living in the past - he's no more a 2nd round pick at this point than Mayo was this time last year. We will be lucky if we lasts to 23, and shouldn't hesitate if he does.
     
  3. TriplecHamp

    TriplecHamp Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2009
    Messages:
    5,537
    Likes Received:
    56
    Ratings:
    +120 / 2 / -1

    #24 Jersey

    Im starting to think that Barwin will be ok at #23 but I still think he is a one trick pony when it comes to pass rushing. I also think he got by on pure Athleticism in a weaker confrence can you convince me otherwise?
     
  4. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    May 1, 2008
    Messages:
    13,643
    Likes Received:
    660
    Ratings:
    +1,866 / 6 / -6

    I'm not quite sure what you mean by "one trick pony". I think that English is more one-dimensional than Barwin in that he is more of a pure pass rusher, whereas Barwin has better ball awareness and ability to play in space. Barwin defended 8 passes last year and blocked 3 kicks. So I think he is able to make impact plays without involving a sack or a TFL. If, however, you are referring to his pass-rushing repertoire, then I would agree that Barwin is a bit one-dimensional right now and lacks a mature repertoire of moves compared to someone like English or Everette Brown. I think that Maybin and Orapko are both a bit more "one trick ponies" than Brown or English (Maybin mostly being a speed guy, and Orapko a bull rusher), but both are more refined than Barwin. But as someone who is a later comer to defense and who seems to be a very quick study, I think that can be overcome. Jays52 has suggested - and I agree - that that might even be an asset when changing positions to OLB, since he will be less ingrained in a 3 point stance and set of pass rushing moves that worked well at DE. But I can't argue that he is raw in terms of his pass rushing technique.
     
  5. TriplecHamp

    TriplecHamp Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2009
    Messages:
    5,537
    Likes Received:
    56
    Ratings:
    +120 / 2 / -1

    #24 Jersey

    Yeah I was talking about his pass rushing repetoir. IDK i just dont know if he will be able to use his that athletisism against NFL tackles. Say we did draft him, how long untill he starts? At the very least how long until he actually makes an impact? Alot of people say he can be a vrabel clone but I dont want a clone I want an upgrade. Over time (2-3) do you honestly think he will be a top 3-4 OLB?
     
  6. bucky

    bucky 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    1,717
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    There's no question that he WON'T be able to get by on his athleticism. Just like I'm quite sure he won't be blocking 3 kicks in 1 year in the NFL.

    It's very easy for people to make this type of Vrabel-like comparison. Vrabel was a third round pick and didn't start in the NFL until his 4th or 5th year. Barwin is actually more athletic and possibly could start in a year or 2. That said, there were probably a half dozen "Vrabel clones" on the past several years who have yet to do a thing in the NFL. Who's to say that Barwin isn't more like Jason Babin or Chris Gocong?
     
  7. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    May 1, 2008
    Messages:
    13,643
    Likes Received:
    660
    Ratings:
    +1,866 / 6 / -6

    When did I mention Vrabel? I think Barwin is much more athletic than Vrabel, and has much greater upside. Vrabel was a 3rd round DE who worked himself into a fine OLB and better overall player. Barwin has all-pro potential. Of course he may not realize it and may be more of a Gocong type player (which isn't terribly bad in my opinion), but I think he's worth the shot at #23. The only way I think Barwin particularly resembles Vrabel at all is that they both seem to have some positional versatility (and also they look a bit alike).

    I'm tired of all of the Vrabel comparisons. Clay Matthews gets compared to Vrabel all the time, and he doesn't really remotedly resemble Vrabel in style. Mel Kiper compared Bobby Carpenter to Vrabel in 2006. Every white OLB over 240# who might fit into a 3-4 scheme gets compared to Mike Vrabel whether they have any similarity or not. Enough already.
     
  8. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2005
    Messages:
    20,550
    Likes Received:
    25
    Ratings:
    +25 / 0 / -0

    What's wrong with Gocong? Good grief, the kid is the starting Sam for Jim Johnson's pressure defense, not bad for a QB converted to DE converted to 4-3 OLB.
     
  9. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    May 1, 2008
    Messages:
    13,643
    Likes Received:
    660
    Ratings:
    +1,866 / 6 / -6

    I've called Barwin my favorite 3-4 OLB prospect since 2005. That led me to reflect a bit on past years. In particular, I've been thinking a bit about last year's draft, when people were debating between Chris Long, Vernon Gholston and Quentin Groves as 3-4 OLB prospects.

    I never thought Gholston would be a good 3-4 OLB. He seemed too muscled and bulky, without the agility or mental makeup to read and react and play in space. I thought Chris Long would actually make a nice 3-4 OLB (and still think he could), though he is a bit heavy for that position. His 7.04 3-cone was quite decent, and he obviously had a great motor and intangibles. I didn't think he was a realistic option, though, because he was probably going to go top 5 and the cost of a conversion project that high in the draft seemed prohibitive.

    Of the 3, Groves seemed the most natural fit, and was the most likely to be available at a point in the draft where a DE/OLB conversion would not breakl the bank. While #10 was always too high for Groves, if we had been allowed to keep our #31 pick I think a lot of people would have been salivating over him as a 3-4 OLB prospect. At 6'3" 259# he had great size. He had 4.53 speed, and was an excellent pass rusher. He had some experience at OLB as well as at DE in college. He compiled impressive stats at a top SEC program.

    But he also had a lot of issues. His 3-cone time of 7.31 was much slower than you would like (considerably slower than Long's 7.04, despite Long running a 4.75 40 compared with Groves' 4.53), and suggested that his speed might be more linear, without the necessary agility to play well in space. He didn't fare particularly well when he played 3-4 OLB at Auburn. He was week against the run He had some off-field issues. And he had questions about his motor and work habits. NFLdraftcountdown negatives on their profile of Groves included: "Extremely inconsistent and lacks a great motor...Undersized and doesn't have the ideal bulk that you look for..Isn't stout at the point...Marginal instincts, awareness and recognition...Limited pass rush repertoire...Too aggressive at times...Slow off the line...Has trouble shedding blocks...Poor technique..A questionable work ethic." Better Know a Draft Prospect: Defensive End QuentinGroves - Big Cat Country

    A lot of people, including many on this board, openly lusted for Groves and were very upset when he fell to #52 and we didn't move up to get him. I was never a Groves fan, mainly because of his poor 3-cone and his character issues.

    What I like so much about Barwin is that he has the size AND the speed AND the agility AND the background playing in space AND the versatility AND the motor AND the intelligence AND the character. No one else has all of those. Not Long, Gholston, or Groves. Not Matthews, English, Sintim, Maybin, Ayers, Brown, Orapko, Cushing, or Michael Johnson. Not Manny Lawson, Chad Greenway or Bobby Carpenter in 2006. The only strike I can see against him is that he is raw. And he is, as far as DE pass-rushing technique goes. But he's been a very quick learner, and my guess is that he will make rapid progress under Pepper's tutelage if the Pats get him. Worst case that I see is that he becomes a Gocong, which, as BOR notes, is not exactly the end of the world.
     
  10. bucky

    bucky 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    1,717
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    Nothing is wrong with Gocong specifically. It's just that he'd not Vrabel. And I'm pointing out the stupidity of comparing Barwin to Vrabel. Which, I admit, isn't something that anyone on this board started.
     
  11. patchick

    patchick Moderatrix Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    11,819
    Likes Received:
    436
    Ratings:
    +1,197 / 9 / -2

    #11 Jersey

    Look, the guy is a DE sack machine, in Ohio, who can also play tight end, and who looks like he could be Mike Vrabel's baby brother. Are they the same player? Not hardly. But the surface resemblances are so obvious the comparison is inevitable.
     
  12. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2005
    Messages:
    20,550
    Likes Received:
    25
    Ratings:
    +25 / 0 / -0

    TFY
    ..........
     
  13. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    May 1, 2008
    Messages:
    13,643
    Likes Received:
    660
    Ratings:
    +1,866 / 6 / -6

    "I would first say I wasn’t a one-year wonder, I was a first-year wonder." What a great line. He clearly has an Irish silver tongue.

    Thank God for a Barwin post. I need my fix - it's been almost 24 hours since his name was mentioned on this board. :D
     
  14. patchick

    patchick Moderatrix Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    11,819
    Likes Received:
    436
    Ratings:
    +1,197 / 9 / -2

    #11 Jersey

    Shameful. With that kind of performance, we scarcely deserve binkies.
     
  15. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2005
    Messages:
    20,550
    Likes Received:
    25
    Ratings:
    +25 / 0 / -0

    You may not, but I'm a good boy (which I'll need to work on if I want any coal in my stocking for Christmas - winter heating was expensive!) and deserve a nice binkie under my draft tree.

    You've got to like the mind behind that silver tongue, he sounds like he's analyzing and testing and looking for ways to turn every bit of odd knowledge he has to his advantage on the field. I can't help but dream about what he could accomplish in a Belichick-fueled environment.
     
  16. maverick4

    maverick4 Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2005
    Messages:
    7,669
    Likes Received:
    17
    Ratings:
    +17 / 0 / -0

    Lucky? Barwin does seem to be a good human being no doubt, but if there's one thing Barwin and his family are world class at, it's marketing/branding and public relations.

    mayo you yourself said on page 1 that he's raw on pass rushing techniques. Add that to the fact that he's not stout against the run either. A 1st rounder on a raw high potential project who needs to improve both pass rush and run defense?
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2009
  17. patchick

    patchick Moderatrix Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    11,819
    Likes Received:
    436
    Ratings:
    +1,197 / 9 / -2

    #11 Jersey

    Mav, you keep saying this but as far as I can tell the guy has done zero showboating, hasn't been pimping himself on tv, has totally dismissed the many Vrabel comparisons, and has indicated that he'll play whatever position his employers want.

    Where's the "marketing/branding"? In his decision to do multiple position workouts? The carefully handled/marketed prospects do precisely the opposite -- they refuse to work out fully at the combine, stand on as many existing numbers as possible at their pro days, or skip the pro days altogether in favor of carefully orchestrated personal showcases. And often, they refuse to work out at alternate positions that would lead to lower paydays. Barwin, meanwhile, has simply performed every single drill he's been asked to do, and by all accounts shined at them all. Why would you call that "branding" rather than just "working hard"?
     
  18. maverick4

    maverick4 Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2005
    Messages:
    7,669
    Likes Received:
    17
    Ratings:
    +17 / 0 / -0

    I never said he was showboating. From all accounts he appears to be a genuinely good, hardworking guy, and with smart parents it seems too. Perhaps using the words marketing or branding or PR are inappropriate, maybe it is more about having exceptional interview skills. He was excellent at the combine, consistently says exactly the things which will help him rise in the draft, and somehow that is going to make him a 1st rounder based on 1 good year on defense, or as mayo puts it, we'd be lucky if he "falls" to us at #23.
     
  19. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2005
    Messages:
    20,550
    Likes Received:
    25
    Ratings:
    +25 / 0 / -0

    .. :popcorn:
     
  20. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2005
    Messages:
    20,550
    Likes Received:
    25
    Ratings:
    +25 / 0 / -0

    Or as mav would put it, he's overrated and no better than a 4th round pick.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

unset ($sidebar_block_show); ?>