Some interesting vets being cut/FA

[patsfaninpittsburgh]

Re: Some interesting vets being cut

BB drafted RBs in the 2nd and 3rd round because the Pats didn't have anyone but Woodhead and Clayton under contract and BJGE is an RFA. Someone might think highly enough of him to try and sign him.. Especially since it would leave the Pats hurting, even more, at RB.

Basically our RBBC needed a few more committee members.

My best guess is Vereen will most closely be slotted to mirror a "feature back". Also, I believe jay is certainly correct that BJGE is probably least valuable as a feature but most valuable "doing his job" in a RBBC.

There is no other team I can think of that has our RB status.

 

[IllegalContact]

Re: Some interesting vets being cut

What annoys some of us is that you keep calling him a "role player," yet he was obviously far more than that last year, and he was very effective.

Remember the vaunted Steelers run defense? They were having one of the best seasons EVER stuffing the run, and Green-Ellis pulled out 87 yards on 18 carries--that's 4.8 yards per carry, more than any other back had managed at that point the season. And most of his runs were right up the middle.

What you're trying to say is that he isn't a spectacular, big play back, and therefore should be relegated to a committee role. The problem is that we don't have a big play back like Adrian Peterson or Corey Dillon. We have a workhorse back in Green-Ellis who is supported by true role players like Danny Woodhead.

Now, this year they may very well make Green-Ellis more of a role player because we drafted some equally talented, but as yet unproven backs. I think they would've done that last year if they had the choice. But I think that's a reflection of Belichick's philosophy more than it is on Green-Ellis as a back--we've been running a committee since 2006. Even if we had an Adrian Peterson-type RB, he wouldn't be getting 300 carries a year like he does in Minnesota.

The fact is, Green-Ellis proved last year that he can carry the load. You can call him a role player all you want, but he started 15 games. He averaged 14 carries a game. The guy was tied for 2nd in the league for most touchdowns with Reshard Mendenhall and Arian Foster. And he averaged more yards per carry than Mendenhall.

That's quite the accomplishment for a guy who's just a role player. Last year Green-Ellis proved he's more than capable of being our workhorse back for a full season.

corey dillon was not a big play back.....he was a workhorse like green-ellis

 

[TriplecHamp]

Re: Some interesting vets being cut

Let the Lawfirm walk for Barber/Ridley/Vereen/Woodie? Gawddamn that's a badass stable!

I actually agree with this.
Dez Bryant on Roy Williams release

carry your own pads, out of the building.

 

[Sicilian]

Re: Some interesting vets being cut

I actually agree with this.
Dez Bryant on Roy Williams release

Not that I want to defend Roy Williams, but Dez has a LOT of growing up to do. Way to show up a veteran former teammate.

 

[TriplecHamp]

Re: Some interesting vets being cut

Not that I want to defend Roy Williams, but Dez has a LOT of growing up to do. Way to show up a veteran former teammate.

he didn't really say that, I was joking lol

 

[mrscruff]

Re: Some interesting vets being cut

On Roy Williams

Andrew Brandt on twitter:
"Cowboys cost for Roy Williams in 2008: 1st, 3rd, 6th round picks and $20 million guaranteed. Now he's released: Treasure to Trash."

and Gregg Rosenthal tweets:
"Smart move by Cowboys cutting Roy Williams. You can only fool Jerry Jones 3 times."

 

[Sicilian]

Re: Some interesting vets being cut

he didn't really say that, I was joking lol

Oh, haha, well then... carry on.

 

[DW Toys]

Re: Some interesting vets being cut

Let's trade James Sanders for Ed Reed while we're at it. I hear the Ravens want to get younger on the defensive backfield.

Done!!!!
DW Toys

 

[borg]

Re: Some interesting vets being cut

Put BJGE near the goal line and he gets positive yards, retains the ball, and gets the six. So now people want the RBs that other teams are cutting? And as far as the homerun feature backs....any of those guys wearing rings? Teams without QBs get the next best thing....a feature back....The trouble is, can't make 14 point comebacks relying on the feature back.
I love BJGE...he put me over the top on several fantasy teams....and isn't that what really matters. The NFL is entertainment....like Broadway. I drafted Miss Saigon, the Phantom, and the kicker from Wicked....boom

 

[borisman]

Re: Some interesting vets being cut/FA & Pats RB situation

It doesn't take long around here for a thread to go off topic.

Who else was released? And what are some players we could have interest in?

 

[DaBruinz]

It doesn't take long around here for a thread to go off topic.

Who else was released? And what are some players we could have interest in?

I haven't heard of anyone else being released since the news on Roy Williams earlier today.

 

[Patspsycho]

Re: Some interesting vets being cut

Let's use the Pitt game as example. In the Beating Pitt 101 textbook on page 1, it says to spread their defense out, force them to declare Polamalu, work on the peripherals then gash them on the interior as a balance. That's exactly what they did and Green Ellis' stats supported this. Let's also not neglect the most important aspect of the run. The line last season in conjunction with the motion based tight end blocking had some gorgeous designs. They got great contributions in the run game up front last season and that lent a lot to the success of the backs. The other issue is that Green-Ellis doesn't have the plant and burst to run zone blocking. When the defense gets set and sees 42 in the backfield they know they don't have to play their zone techniques and when they read run they are fine to go with their directional techniques. That's fine if that's who you want to be but the Patriots are designed around ambiguity and flexibility. Why do you think Belichick loves tight ends so much? They don't declare anything and with a 2 TE, 1 RB set you can literally run any kind of offensive concept AND force a coverage declaration through balance. Having a unitasking back hurts this ability.

I know what I'm saying isn't popular but that shouldn't detract from it's validity.

The error in your diagnosis is that Polamalu freelances too much to rely on for declaration. The best (and what actually happens) is for Brady to get the D to tip its hand, and more often than not that'll strip the camouflage on Polamalu.

Number two, I see nothing wrong in the argument that our line had as much to do with BJGE's success as he, himself, did. That is the purpose and design of a football offense. When you have someone like LoMo who goes off the page after his first cut, the scheme collapses- and no matter how good of a RB you are, if you don't follow the scheme, more often than not, you get stuffed.

Three, with all due respect, the 33T that BJGE ripped on the Packers came on a IZ pin and pull (Mankins) if I recall correctly.

 

[Patspsycho]

Re: Some interesting vets being cut

I like green ellis too, but a good back would have made the Jets pay for dropping so many into coverage with a couple of 20 yard runs, rather than eeking out 4 and 5 yard gains. He's a solid player, but BJGE's lack of speed and elusiveness cost them in that game.

In which Jets game? We had three of those.

If you are speaking of the playoff game, the playcalling was the biggest (but not the only) culprit.

 

[mgteich]

Re: Some interesting vets being cut

????

We went into the draft with TWO running backs, Woodhead and Clayton. Green-Ellis is third of our running backs , an RFA who will have a contract through 2011, unless a new contract si signed. We have room for FIVE running backs in various roles.

We NEEDED running backs for 2011. We also needed running backs for 2012, whether Green-Ellis is playing for us then or not.

IMHO, we STILL need a running back, Faulk or another veteran. This is not a knock on Green-Ellis. Running abcks get injured. Also, we have roles for more than one or two running backs.

QUOTE=patsfaninpittsburgh;2598447]Actually, it appears Belichick shares your concerns. Why else would we draft RB's in rounds two and three? Maybe that's why BJGE didn't really get the ball in the playoffs.

It seems your "beef" is really the dynamic between RBBC vs feature RB. Based on the Pittsburgh win, you would certainly have a case.[/QUOTE]

 

[jays52]

Re: Some interesting vets being cut

The error in your diagnosis is that Polamalu freelances too much to rely on for declaration. The best (and what actually happens) is for Brady to get the D to tip its hand, and more often than not that'll strip the camouflage on Polamalu.

Number two, I see nothing wrong in the argument that our line had as much to do with BJGE's success as he, himself, did. That is the purpose and design of a football offense. When you have someone like LoMo who goes off the page after his first cut, the scheme collapses- and no matter how good of a RB you are, if you don't follow the scheme, more often than not, you get stuffed.

Three, with all due respect, the 33T that BJGE ripped on the Packers came on a IZ pin and pull (Mankins) if I recall correctly.

Force them to declare Polamalu vs get declaration then deduce is semantics in my mind. Meh.

Towards the Maroney thing, that's where the academics of x's and o's can lead one astray in player eval. He only freelanced once he either a) was impatient behind his directional blocks or b) couldn't be decisive enough on his reads in zone. It wasn't that he was trying to be Barry Sanders or Chris Johnson, he just didn't know how to play his position. I think Maroney's (Maronies?) issues were fullback related, minorly tight end related, and least of all playing depth related. Patience and decision making. What makes BJGE good is what made Maroney ineffective.

Lastly, I don't know how you're going to pin and pull on inside zone against an upfield 34. That's called blown up in the backfield. As far as I understand it pin and pull is just a variation of outside zone where you get your uncovered linemen to pull instead of waiting for the wash and trying to reach. Smart against fast fronts that can move with you, but far too slow developing to effectively be ran inside at the pro level. Where's Mankins gonna go? Pull inside Koppen to pickup the backside ILB while Connoly posts the playside? That sounds a little too modified and nonsensical. I dunno, that was purely speculative, and I'm sure Chris Brown's posted something where he links to that play but conceptually that makes no sense. Meh, whatever, impossible to talk plays without 11 on 11.

 

[BlueThunder]

Jays52 knows stuff

 

[wcpatsfan]

I have no idea why you guys are arguing about BJGE. Obviously he is a decent back who can get in the end zone and never fumbles. Obviously Belichick doesn't think he can get it all done by himself since he drafted Vereen and Ridley. So he'll stay on the Pats for now because he's cheap. His role will probably be reduced next year but perhaps not by a lot. Case closed.

 

[stcjones]

Re: Some interesting vets being cut

A 1000 yard rusher, 13 TDs last year, and he has NEVER fumbled. I can't figure out why so many people continue to think Green-Ellis is some nobody that you can replace as easily as you change your socks.

Amen bro ....Lawfirm has proven that he is a capable starting RB....add in the RB draft picks, one with speed and one with bruising power....and a little woodhead sprinkled in....and they are going to be good at RB. Not

 

[captain stone]

Re: Some interesting vets being cut

I like green ellis too, but a good back would have made the Jets pay for dropping so many into coverage with a couple of 20 yard runs, rather than eeking out 4 and 5 yard gains. He's a solid player, but BJGE's lack of speed and elusiveness cost them in that game.

Please tell me that Law Firm's limitations were not nearly as costly as:
Brady's ******ed INT (esp. when Tate was wide open after the fake reverse),
Ancient Crumpler's drop on the EZ,
Brady & Gronk not being on the same page (twice, both on crucial 3rd downs),
Bill's & Chung's shockingly, stupefyingly bone-headed fake punt,
Darius Butler being Darius Butler,
and...what else, what else...oh yes:
NO FECKING PASS-RUSH WHATSOEVER.

 

[captain stone]

Leonard Davis from the Cowboys
Rich Seusbert from the Giants..
Marc Columbo from the Cowboys.

Todd Heap, Derek Mason, Wllis McGahee, Kelly Gregg

Davis would make a nice replacement for Neal. So would Harvey Dahl or Justin Blalock...

I heard on NFL Radio that Shawn O'Hara was also released by the jints. Interesting...