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Some franchise players still unsigned - Perspective on Cassel & Vrabel


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I really think you're losing it. He wasn't offered a first by anyone. Supposedly Detroit was offering #33 pending they could even orchestrate the 3 way. Tampa was offering their picks to Denver who was going to have to work compensation out with NE if they wanted to deal. Why would they give up a first - that would have amounted to trading Cutler for Cassel and a 3rd...

And even if he had been signing a player drafted a few spots higher for a year more than one drafted at #34 it does nothing to mitigate losing out on half a dozen players you wanted and needed and signed already this year because you didn't think waiting was was going to net you more than they were worth...

1.) You don't know what he was offered. Again, speculation vs. fact.

2.) They needn't have lost out on those players, as time proved quite conclusively. A 24 hour delay, hell even several days delay, wouldn't have cost the team Galloway, just for an example.

Anything else?
 
Well, I don't know if the 3 rings and undefeated season is a product of BB's genious or Scott Pioli being the greatest talent evaluator in the history of football.

Fact is, the Patriots might have just got robbed by the same guy that has been behind every single brilliant move that BB has ever been credited for.

If
KC has a better record than the Patriots over the next three seasons than NEP, then SP deserves the HOF more than BB.

WOW

You haven't been the same since you went on your Cassel bender...

Pioli worked for BB who essentially taught him everything he knows about NFL football and talent evaluation. He hired him when he was the HC in Cleveland and Pioli was a coaching assistant at a small college whom Bill had met while he was still in college and hanging around Giants training camps. When BB was fired by the Browns Pioli remained with the new Ravens for 1 season before Bill returned to the NFL with the Jets. Bill convinced Parcells to hire him. When Bill left the Jets for NE Pioli went with him, even though by then he was married to Parcell's daughter...

Scott never worked with Bill while he was with the Parcells and the Giants where he engineered 2 Superbowl rings as Tuna's DC. The defensive game plan from one of which is already in the HOF.

You're the worst kind of fickle bandwaggon fan. Don't even have the guts to jump now, gonna wait 'til you see how it turns out and say you're a fan of the winner.
 
1.) You don't know what he was offered. Again, speculation vs. fact.

2.) They needn't have lost out on those players, as time proved quite conclusively. A 24 hour delay, hell even several days delay, wouldn't have cost the team Galloway, just for an example.

Anything else?

1.) Yeah. I do. He said he was offered nothing, there was no firm offer just what HE referred to as speculation and much of it after the fact that would have been contingent on other things happening including probably getting a long term deal for Cassel worked out with any other team than KC. And he stated he was not willing to go down that road and have it drag on and and lose out on FA or maybe have no deal at all. So unless you're calling him a liar as well as me an ass for taking him at his word and disagreeing with you...

You refuse to acknowledge what he actually said because it doesn't agree with your opinion. I listened to what he actually said.

2.) BB said he felt we would have lost out on signing players if he waited long enough to see if any deal let alone a complicated three way involving a franchised player was even feasible. And he knows more about the timeline and financials involved in this case and that scenario than either of us. He said the KC deal brought us the draft and FA. As time actually proved quite conclusively.

Baker and Taylor were both signed on Friday but only after Moss agreed to a restructure to free up cap. So there was no money left to sign additional players. Cassel AND Vrabel were officially traded on Saturday. Sanders stated he had a better offer on the table. He and Hochstein were signed on Monday AM (league office isn't open for business on Sundays...) at a cap cost of $3M. 3 days later they had signed 4 more players post trade for total of 6 at a cost of $7.3M against the cap. The following week 4 more players signed deals now totaling $13.6M against the cap within 9 days of trading Cassel and Vrabel. Wright and Galloway increased the total to $17.1M 14 days post trade.

It took a whole month for Denver to decide they actually did want to trade Cutler after all. For a first and a third and a starting QB all going to them. Deal only took 48 hours to get done but then Cutler was under contract affordably for 3 more years and had lost leverage to demand a new deal given the PR hit he was absorbing. And Orton was signed through 2009 at approximately $13.6M less than Cassel. Detroit and Tampa were never really in the running once Cutler actually was available. And in the several weeks since franchise tags were initially placed no franchise tagged player besides Cassel has moved an inch as the OP noted.

3.) The simple fact remains he didn't say what you said he did. You just insist that's what he meant...pure speculation on your part because for some reason you apparently feel compelled to insist he made a conscious decision not to persue better value in the process of trading Matt Cassel knowing full well it was out there...somewhere, and there was no legitimate reason not to persue it. You must subconsciously think Bill is the village idiot.

Bill said he did his due diligence post combine and there were no takers. As he was finalizing a deal for Cassel that would also facilitate Vrabel's departure on better terms for NE, two of the incompetent idiots he had already offered Cassel to to no avail tried to piece together an alternate plan designed to land them Jay Cutler. Absent that deal getting done, which was not going to happen per the Denver Broncos, there was NO FREAKIN' INTEREST IN TRADING FOR MATT CASSEL - then or expressed since from any team - foolish as that may ultimately prove to be.
 
1.) You don't know what he was offered. Again, speculation vs. fact.

2.) They needn't have lost out on those players, as time proved quite conclusively. A 24 hour delay, hell even several days delay, wouldn't have cost the team Galloway, just for an example.

Anything else?

Also in the realm of speculation would be the notion that Pioli was willing to keep his offer on the table and give Belichick the opportunity to go out and find someone else willing to give him more.

I know some have speculated that Belichick was doing Pioli a solid - I guess if Pioli were willing to keep the offer safely on the table while BB shopped around that would be Scott doing Bill a solid - something I wouldn't think either of them would consider.

Just the opposite - Pioli likely knew he was among the only teams out there able and willing to take on Cassel's contract as is - and therefore no need for a lengthy contract negotiation thereby buying him a "discount" of just a high 2nd round pick.

If I'm Pioli, if I get any inclination that Belichick is attempting to play me off another team to up the ante, I threaten to pull the offer, leaving Belichick holding the bag on both Cassel and Vrabel, opening up the can of worms that includes the unlikely scenario of finding another team willing to take the contracts as is, or a potentially drawn out contract negotiation with Cassel (noting that Cassel could effectively block any trade requiring a long term contract) and ending any chance of signing the free agents they'd targeted.

So the common sense speculation on my part was that Belichick understood the risk of being stuck with Cassel's contract was no where near the reward of moving up a dozen draft picks.... hence the wise move is to take Pioli's offer and not wait even 24 hours.
 
Also in the realm of speculation would be the notion that Pioli was willing to keep his offer on the table and give Belichick the opportunity to go out and find someone else willing to give him more.

I know some have speculated that Belichick was doing Pioli a solid - I guess if Pioli were willing to keep the offer safely on the table while BB shopped around that would be Scott doing Bill a solid - something I wouldn't think either of them would consider.

Just the opposite - Pioli likely knew he was among the only teams out there able and willing to take on Cassel's contract as is - and therefore no need for a lengthy contract negotiation thereby buying him a "discount" of just a high 2nd round pick.

If I'm Pioli, if I get any inclination that Belichick is attempting to play me off another team to up the ante, I threaten to pull the offer, leaving Belichick holding the bag on both Cassel and Vrabel, opening up the can of worms that includes the unlikely scenario of finding another team willing to take the contracts as is, or a potentially drawn out contract negotiation with Cassel (noting that Cassel could effectively block any trade requiring a long term contract) and ending any chance of signing the free agents they'd targeted.

So the common sense speculation on my part was that Belichick understood the risk of being stuck with Cassel's contract was no where near the reward of moving up a dozen draft picks.... hence the wise move is to take Pioli's offer and not wait even 24 hours.

Evidence for your speculative opinion is that nobody outside the Patriots knew the Pats risk situation and how they would react to it better than Pioli.
 
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