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Some franchise players still unsigned - Perspective on Cassel & Vrabel

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by JoeSixPat, Apr 11, 2009.

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  1. JoeSixPat

    JoeSixPat Rookie

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    ProFootballTalk.com - Still No Interest In Unsigned Franchise Players

    Seems to me that seeing how Peppers and Sproles are STILL unsigned, this gives more creedance than ever before that Belichick was wise to move quickly on unloading Cassel & Vrabel with the Chiefs for a 2nd rounder, even though waiting for Cassel to come to a long term agreement with another team might well have resulted in a 1st round pick.

    Sure, we've all seen that a pro-bowl QB already signed to a 3 year contract for low money is worth a 1st and 3rd round pick in trade. That type of player signed to that type of deal is understandably worth more than a QB with 1 year as a starter, who fairly or unfairly might still have questions since he had the benefit of playing with Welker and Moss. Add to that the fact he was signed only to a 1 year contract at nearly $15 million and one might begin to think we were LUCKY to get a 2nd for Cassel in comparison.

    Of course, the fact that Cassel signed the tender meant that the Pats could force a trade as long as the receiving team were willing to accept that one year $15 million deal.

    But given that fact, ultimately the number of teams in the NFL that:

    1. Had a need at QB
    2. Had a strong interest in Cassel and
    3. Had the cap space to accept Cassel at 1 year $15 million (and Vrabel for a total of $19 million) without otherwise impacting their ability to be active in free agency too ...

    ...probably wasn't the longest list to start.

    And while Cassel could have been traded to another team, IF both he and the team were willing to negotiate a long-term contract that was of enough guaranteed value to make it worth it to Cassel (compared to the $15 million this year and more than that next year either as a free agent or 2nd year franchise player) - that's a pretty big "IF" which could likely have taken awhile to get ironed out. (And let's not forget the "IF" of reaching an agreement not just with Cassel but also with Belichick on compensation.)

    Indeed, Peppers and Sproles are able to have the same negotiations with teams as it now stands and seemingly haven't been able to get that done.

    And what about Vrabel you ask? Why was he part of this deal?

    Well in hindsight it's clear Belichick wasn't going to bring Vrabel back at $4.3 million this season. He's good - and a contributor - but clearly didn't meet that salary value for the Patriots.

    So that means Belichick could cut him, or trade him (or attempt to renegotiate - which if that failed, we'd be back to possibly having to cut him).

    So why not cut him? You might as well as, "Why not send him to the Jets, Dolphins, Bills - or another AFC title contender?"

    Including Vrabel in the trade ensured that Vrabel wouldn't go to a rival, and may have done Vrabel the favor of sending him to the one team that could afford his full $4.3 million - likely more than he'd get as a free agent.

    So, not to belabor the point, rather than risking a drawn out salary negotiation between Cassel and other teams that, if it dragged on half as long as Peppers and Sproles situation, would have devastated the Patriots free agency plans, Belichick opted to trade Cassel and Vrabel to the one team that could take thgem both immediately, without any need for drawn out salary negotiations which could well have bogged down or ultimately prevented a trade that would have held the Patriots hostage.

    Had that happened we'd be openly and rightly critical of Belichick's serious gamble to move up a dozen or so draft spots from a sure fire quick trade for #34.

    Seems to make sense to me... though apparently not to everyone else.
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2009
  2. amazinPats

    amazinPats Rookie

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    Makes sense to me as well. Although I expected more from the trade, I think it worked out very well. BB did the best he could with the cards he had.
  3. supafly

    supafly PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    Yeah I don't understand all the doubters and whiners regarding this trade, we basically got a 1st rounder anyway at #34
  4. KDPPatsfan85

    KDPPatsfan85 Rookie

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    #51 Jersey

    Also, he was a 7th round draft pick! We got a steal!
  5. Feep50

    Feep50 Rookie

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    True, but you can't look at it just from this point of view. He was a 7th rd pick that the Patriots invested 4 years into AND was a winning starter the last year.....That changes the equation significantly. I'm not arguing it wasn't a good deal for us, but you couldn't look at Cassel as simply a 7th round pick for the #34th this year, at the point we made the trade... :cool:
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2009
  6. fair catch fryar

    fair catch fryar Rookie

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    No Jersey Selected

    I agree. Call me a homer, but I just don't see how many people can sit there and scrutinize and 2nd guess BB after all he's proven. When it comes to assessing players, building a football team from top to bottom and simply winning there's not many, if any in his league. granted the guys made some and will undoubtedly make some more mistakes, but I'll trust he knows what he's doing. Hopefully, he can turn that 2nd round pick into solid starter for the defense either at LB or in the secondary it really doesn't matter.
  7. willdeespats

    willdeespats Rookie

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    #91 Jersey

    And you know that old saying is still true: A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.:)

    Will D
  8. JoeSixPat

    JoeSixPat Rookie

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    Obviously there's some who think they're smarter than Belichick, seeing how several weeks after Cassel was traded the Broncos still got a 1st and 3rd round pick for him.

    They can't or won't admit that comparing Cassel and Cutler were apples and oranges for a whole list of reasons.

    They seem to think that if THEY were the GM, they'd at least taken Pioli's offer of #34 and spent the next several days playing one team off another to move a dozen or more points higher in the draft.

    I can't help but wonder how they'd guarantee that Pioli - who may have been the one and only team willing to take Cassel's on for his current 1 year $15 million salary cap contract as well as Vrabel's $4.3 million - wouldn't have pulled his offer had Belichick tried to finangle more from him.

    Where would that have left the Patriots? Likely waiting a week or two or even more for Cassel to complete negotiations on a long term contract with another team while our targeted free agents went elsewhere... and possibly seeing Vrabel cut to make cap space and landing with the Jets, Fins or Browns.

    ... all becaue they felt we should get a draft pick at 24 or 14 instead of 34.
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2009
  9. PATSYLICIOUS

    PATSYLICIOUS Rookie

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    Well some use the Jay Cutler trade to use that as proof we were had in our deal, as if that had any relevance. It's too bad we have gullible ole BB running this team and not some of the master bargainers on this forum, we could really be somethin special.
  10. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    BB has pointed out that he might have gotten more if he'd waited. People arguing in defense of BB are doing precisely what they are accusing those on the other side of doing.
  11. PATSYLICIOUS

    PATSYLICIOUS Rookie

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    Not precisely, BB got what he could at the time and cleared up necessary cap space to make a play in early FA. There's no guarantee the players they wanted (and subsequently signed) would still be around if he waited so anybody complaining can't really hold it against him that he didn't.
  12. spacecrime

    spacecrime Rookie

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    :confused: :confused: :confused:

    Your second sentence makes no sense.

    People arguing in defense of BB are doing precisely what they are accusing those on the other side of doing. :confused:

    People arguing in defense of BB are saying he got what he could given the constraints he had to work under. They are saying that he could not have waited for what MIGHT have happened.

    So we are accusing the other side of doing the same thing?

    Could you perhaps elaborate on what you mean by that?

    Your first sentence is true, if woefully incomplete. BB said he might have gotten a better deal but that no such deal was in the works. He might not have had a better deal, and the Pats could not have finalized the agreements they already had until they had some cap relief. He also said there were no better deals on the table or even in the works, that there were no other offers or even suitors when he made the deal with KC.
  13. Fencer

    Fencer Rookie

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    Football-wise only, Cassel was worth something less than Cutler.

    Taking contracts into account, Cassel was worth a lot less.

    BB's choice CLEARLY wasn't ridiculous. It may have been right; it may have been wrong. But it wasn't ridiculous.
  14. ThePatriotWay

    ThePatriotWay Rookie

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    We got the best possiable for Cassel at the time we made the trade its a totally diffrent story if the Cutler trade happens first and than we make the trade.
  15. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Both sides are asserting their opinions and speculations as facts, and beating a dead horse into a mushy pulp. Your post is a perfect example, since Belichick clearly could have waited: that is undeniable.
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2009
  16. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I dont think the point is that he couldn't have waited, I think its that it would have been foolhardy to wait if he wanted to participate in the FA market like he did.
    You said BB admitted he could have gotten more if he waited. Could you link me to where he said that, I think I missed it, thanks.
  17. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    WEEI interview, and claiming it would have been foolhardy is just opinion, which is part of my point.
  18. Synovia

    Synovia Rookie

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    Where cassel was picked is absolutely irrelevant.
  19. Synovia

    Synovia Rookie

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    Umm, no, he didn't. He said there were other suitors, but they came to the table too late in the process.
  20. Yehoodi

    Yehoodi Rookie

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    Exactly, its similar to if we traded Brady for a single low first round pick and then said "well gee we turned a 6th rounder into a low first rounder" True Brady had developed more than Cassel has but we can't simply look at Cassel as a 7th rounder anymore . . .

    But given the OP originals points I am contend with the trade
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2009
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