So who exactly did the BB regime ever develop slowly and successfully?

[Deus Irae]

No, I'm not.


If they're saying "average" and meaning "replaceable" they're not using the word correctly. If you want to have a discussion about the value of players, you need to accurately describe those players.

Most teams only carry one fullback, so an above average fullback, is at worst, in the top 16 fullbacks in the league.

jargon definition | Dictionary.com

 

[DaBruinz]

No, I'm not.


If they're saying "average" and meaning "replaceable" they're not using the word correctly. If you want to have a discussion about the value of players, you need to accurately describe those players.

Most teams only carry one fullback, so an above average fullback, is at worst, in the top 16 fullbacks in the league.

Not using the word correctly? Maybe in your myopic opinion. But, then, you are the one who didn't read what was said by the original poster nor what was being replied to. We were talking about a particular ability and the quality that Evans has.

That quality standard is a set mark. It doesn't fluctuate based on the number of people in the league. Its the rule that the people in the league are held to.

It is you who doesn't seem to understand how the word "AVERAGE" is used in terms of quality.

 

[Synovia]

That quality standard is a set mark. It doesn't fluctuate based on the number of people in the league.

Average:a quantity intermediate to a set of quantities.

The average, or mean, is typical mark across the sample, so it most certainly does fluctuate as the sample fluctuates.

 

[Fencer]

Follow-up question: Why are you differentiating between the players he "brought along slowly", and those that attained success more quickly? That's the part of your premise that puzzles me. Is he a better coach if he brings them along more slowly?????

I was seeing things in the draft analysis that rang a little false.

For example, I question certain writers' assumptions about the Pats stashing OL for long periods of time and having them blossom into studs. I think this year's OL draftees will either be getting serious burn by the beginning of next season or else be nothing to be excited about over the course of their careers.

 

[DaBruinz]

When you say a FB is an above average blocker, you are saying he blocks better than the average blocking fullback. Theres no other way to interpret it.

Actually there is. And its clear you have never worked in a quality department or produced anything and had to inspect it for quality.

When talking quality, the "average" is what is expected at any given point. That point is a FIXED point. It doesn't move. When talking the about a FBs blocking ability, we are talking a quality measure. Life isn't perfect and they aren't all going to line up nice and pretty the way you want to think. There are times when you have a lot of excellent blocking FBs and a lot of horrible blocking fullbacks (because they are used for pass-catching) and almost no "average" blocking FBs.

When I said that Evans was "at best and above average blocking FB" that didn't place him in the top 16 of the league as OVERALL ability. I was talking, specifically, about his blocking ability and the fact that it wasn't GREAT. And that still doesn't place him in the top 16 in terms of blocking ability. Because there could be 10 other above average blockers and 9 great blockers. And of the 10 above average blockers, 9 could be better than Evans.

 

[DaBruinz]

Average:a quantity intermediate to a set of quantities.

The average, or mean, is typical mark across the sample, so it most certainly does fluctuate as the sample fluctuates.

Synovia - please get your panties out of the wad they are in.

What you are talking about is statistics. You are not talking about quality. So, no, in quality, it doesn't fluctuate.

Ok.. Here is an example.

The "AVERAGE" FB should block a blocking sled with 675 lbs of force. You take 32 FBs and have them hit a blocking sled. In a "PERFECT" world, you'd have 15 above the line and 15 below the line and 2 on the line. Then the average would be 675 lbs. However, after you do the sample, you find that you have 22 FBs who hit above 675 lbs and 4 FBs who hit below and 6 who hit right on.

Then, the next year, you do it again. This time you get 21 below the line, 0 on the line and 11 above the line.

Where is your average now? Its still the 675 lbs because that is what they should do. However, the sample average is not the 675 lbs.

And that is where YOU are getting confused.

 

[godef]

Eugene Wilson.
Kevin Faulk (OK, drafted pre-BB, but certainly developed by him)
Tebucky Jones had his best years under BB.
Jarvis Green?
Matt Chatham?
Patrick Pass

 

[Synovia]

When talking quality, the "average" is what is expected at any given point.

Again, that is not what the word means. With that definition, its possible to have absolutely no one be "average".

 

[Synovia]

Where is your average now? Its still the 675 lbs because that is what they should do. However, the sample average is not the 675 lbs.

What they should do is irrelevant to the average. What the actual talent distribution is determines the average.


you're making up definitions for words to fit your invalid argument.

 

[chris_in_sunnyvale]

Brady doesn't belong on there due to the specifics of his situation...he's in a situation all of his own.

I'd keep Brady on the list because he showed enough his rookie year to merit a spot on the roster as a 4th QB. BB obviously saw enough in him to avoid putting him on the PS or outright cut him. Then you have to factor that he busted his rump so much between yr 1 and 2 that he jumped up the depth chart to #2...again, quite an achievement for the 199th pick.

Now one can argue that it took a Bledsoe injury for Brady to get his chance, but there has been speculation that had Bledsoe stayed healthy, BB would have gone to Brady midway through the season anyway. By many accounts, Brady outperformed Bledsoe in the preseason and obviously his jump from #4 to #2 on the depth chart showed how much BB thought of him. And clearly BB didn't think much of Bledsoe. For God's sake, he traded him within the division. As coach of the Browns and an assistant on the Jets, his defenses routinely made Bledsoe look bad. No way was BB married to the idea that Bledsoe was his starter.

Regards,
Chris

 

[Deus Irae]

What they should do is irrelevant to the average. What the actual talent distribution is determines the average.


you're making up definitions for words to fit your invalid argument.

Again.... jargon. You can keep babbling on and on about the Webster's Dictionary version of "average", but it's not going to make you correct. Average is frequently not quantifiable in sports, and it's not used as an exact term as a result.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Tom Brady
Matt Cassel
Asante Samuel
David Givens
Stephen Neal
Ellis Hobbs
Brandon Meriweather
Does Randall Gay count? Started the majority of his rookie season, but was forced in due to injury.
Jarvis Green? Played in a lot of games his rookie year; never started.
Tully Banta Cain? Like him or not, he's a legit pro, and was a 7th round pick.
James Sanders
Gary Guyton

There are a lot of borderline guys, like I still think LeKevin Smith could be pretty good for somebody down the line, but I think these all fit the definition of what you were talking about.

 

[Patsrock]

Burned on about two big plays per game, I believe at least three TDs with one being a major one that took the team out of the game.



I believe it Mike Reiss's Pieces blog, I believe he was surprised he made the cut last year...



They cut guys last year with a thin depth at CB and LB. If he isn't playing up to their standards then he won't be there depth problems or not.



Actually, yes I do think they would have signed him to that much of a deal if they were possibly going to cut him in the future if he didn't work out for them. If it works out that he isn't performing to their standards they will pay whatever guaranteed to him and he will be gone, and even then it's probably not much at all.


I'll eat my hat if I'm wrong about him.

According to Miguel it will cost less to keep James Sanders than to cut him from the team this season.

Cap # $2,502,280
Cap hit if cut or traded $3,082,280

So I would be in shocked if he is cut this year.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Sorry, Synovia, it doesn't mean that he's better than most in the league. Being an above average blocker has nothing with the number of players at FB. It has to do with the QUALITY of the blocking. Being above average in quality doesn't mean that you are amongst the best.

Also, this idea that, somehow the league is broken down perfectly into below average, average, and above average is pretty funny.

Do you have any idea what the word "average" means? Being above average in quality means that you are better than more than half of the guys out there. The league IS broken perfectly down into below average, average, and above average. By the very definition of what "average" means, that's necessarily the case.

I get what you're talking about, but that's the difference between "decent", "good", and "bad". These are entirely qualitative terms, and are judgments of quality. They are not necessarily made relative to other players in the league. To talk about something in terms of average, though, means talking about where it falls on a distribution of other players in the sample. This is obviously difficult to quantify precisely in many cases, which is why it's difficult to talk about an "average" blocker in more than a general sense, but that doesn't change the definition of the word.

For example: back in the 80s, what would pass for an "average" Patriots season would be far BELOW what we consider average now. That's because average is defined only in relation to the accompanying datapoints.

 

[Patjew]

When did Bill Clinton and Bill Gates join the forum?

 

[Deus Irae]

Do you have any idea what the word "average" means? Being above average in quality means that you are better than more than half of the guys out there. The league IS broken perfectly down into below average, average, and above average. By the very definition of what "average" means, that's necessarily the case.

I get what you're talking about, but that's the difference between "decent", "good", and "bad". These are entirely qualitative terms, and are judgments of quality. They are not necessarily made relative to other players in the league. To talk about something in terms of average, though, means talking about where it falls on a distribution of other players in the sample. This is obviously difficult to quantify precisely in many cases, which is why it's difficult to talk about an "average" blocker in more than a general sense, but that doesn't change the definition of the word.

For example: back in the 80s, what would pass for an "average" Patriots season would be far BELOW what we consider average now. That's because average is defined only in relation to the accompanying datapoints.

Again, hopefully for the last time on this thread.....

JARGON















Dear God, let this offseason go by quickly.

 

[JDSal45]

Patrick Pass
Brandon Gorin
Tom Ashworth

J D Sal

 

[Patjew]

Again, hopefully for the last time on this thread.....

JARGON















Dear God, let this offseason go by quickly.

What do you mean by "quickly"? Is that the same as quicker than average?

 

[BradyFTW!]

Again, hopefully for the last time on this thread.....

JARGON















Dear God, let this offseason go by quickly.

If someone uses a word, and you say that they've used it wrong, then it's on you when they prove that you're talking out of your ass. The word "average" means something fairly specific: middle-of-the-road, relative to the rest of the dataset. When someone says that Heath Evans is, at best, an above-average fullback, then that's still pretty damn good, and speaks very well of BB's ability to coach up marginal (at best) talent, which was the whole initial point of this thread.
If you don't know what it means, then that's on you, especially since the average sixth grader could define it correctly.