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So who exactly did the BB regime ever develop slowly and successfully?

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by Fencer, Apr 28, 2009.

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  1. Fencer

    Fencer Rookie

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    BB has a reputation for bringing players along slowly and making eventual stars of them. When I look for examples of that, however, the list I come up with is basically:


    • Tom Brady
    • Matt Cassel
    • Asante Samuel
    • David Givens (not a big star, but clearly a great value)
    • Stephen Neal (ditto)
    Who else, if anybody, am I missing? Seymour, Warren, Wilfork, Mayo, Light, Mankins, Koppen, and others all played significant roles their first seasons. Others -- especially lots of OL and LBs -- did well on STs or as reserves, but hardly became stars.

    Is this story perhaps a bit exaggerated?
  2. ropese

    ropese Rookie

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    How about James Sanders?
  3. ropese

    ropese Rookie

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    Well, I guess with Sanders and a few others its making them into solid starters, not neccessarily stars.
  4. BradyFTW!

    BradyFTW! PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    You could maybe toss Brandon Meriweather in there, though that's kinda borderline. He showed flashes early, but didn't become a big-time contributor until late in his second season.
  5. efin98

    efin98 Rookie

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    He was constantly on the borderline cut area last preseason and his game films last year are a case of what not to do for a defensive back...he isn't a success, he's a borderline failure at this point.
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2009
  6. efin98

    efin98 Rookie

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    Brady doesn't belong on there due to the specifics of his situation...he's in a situation all of his own.
  7. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    How about:

    Ellis Hobbs a former 3rd round pick
    Mike Vrable a st player for Pittsburgh
  8. Fencer

    Fencer Rookie

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    IIRC, Vrabel was playing a lot right away, and effectively. In particular, his pressure on Warner led to a key INT in the Super Bowl.
  9. Fencer

    Fencer Rookie

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    Actually, the whole QB position is a case of its own when it comes to player development. Can you think of another position where a #1 overall pick isn't just assumed to be a likely Opening Day starter?
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2009
  10. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    But he saw the talent and gave him the opportunity to excel..
  11. JackBauer

    JackBauer Rookie

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    Which is why they just resigned him to a three year contract?

    Here's a dollar. Buy yourself a clue.
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2009
  12. AzPatsFan

    AzPatsFan Rookie

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    A "bordeline failure" who signed a contract for $3 million a year. Yeah Sure...;)
  13. Fencer

    Fencer Rookie

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    That's a different point.

    My point in starting this thread is that there's an impression the Pats spend years spinning straw into gold, especially in Professor Dante's O-Line Academy.

    I suspect that, while there's some truth to it, it's overstated.
  14. AzPatsFan

    AzPatsFan Rookie

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    And...

    Asante Samuels a 4th round pick average fro his first two seasons
    Pierre Woods an UDFA, now a starter at SOLB
    Mike Wright an UDFA and a prime reserve DE, NT
    Lonnie Paxton an UDFA now the highest paid LS
    And of course the best for last...
    Matt Cassel 7th round non player in college, The $60 million dollar man.
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2009
  15. efin98

    efin98 Rookie

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    That's the point, until he came to New England he was essentially just a special teams guy who made some difference on defense but was mostly unnoticed.

    He had more tackles his first year here than he had in four years in Pittsburgh combined, to go along with his anemic six sacks and three forced fumbles...the system here made his career.
  16. efin98

    efin98 Rookie

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    And how many times did he get burned badly last year? How many TDs did he give up?

    He barely made the cut last year and may not make it this year with someone there who can actually play safety drafted, I call that a failure.
  17. JackBauer

    JackBauer Rookie

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    I don't know; since you seem privy to this information, why don't you tell us?

    You know this, how?

    Completely and utterly preposterous. First, Chung has shown he can play safety... in college. In case you hadn't noticed, NFL football is an entirely different echelon. Second, everything BB has ever said about Sanders has been both positive and effusive (by BB standards). Third, even if Chung pans out, which I believe he will, Sanders will never be cut because there's simply not that much behind him in terms of depth.

    Oh, and lest I forget. Do you really, really think they would have inked him to a three year deal, at a respectable salary no less, if there were any chance at all they were considering cutting him later on before/during the season? I mean, use your head.
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2009
  18. efin98

    efin98 Rookie

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    Wright and Woods lucked into playing with all the injuries to the defense, I would hardly put them into the group yet. Hell I don't even think Woods will be around after training camp. Wright may be on the rise, but I'm not sold on him yet. He could be the next Chris Sullivan but it is too early to tell.

    I'll give one to counter my claim on them to be nice...Tully Banta-Cain, 7th rounder who went on to sign for decent money with San Fransisco.

    How about Heath Evens, they sign him and he goes on to be one of the best blocking fullbacks in the league saving his career.
  19. JSn

    JSn Rookie

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    You can't keep changing the rules of a posting game...

    Slow development, to me, is any player who is not a Day One Starter but who becomes a solid player by year's end or early the following.

    I will go ahead and add Guyton to that list. I would not be the least bit surprised if he's starting opposite Mayo by week #6. I know we have added bodies at the position, but his growth and motivation are following similar lines to Mayo's (obviously not at the same speed).

    To me, if a guy is game-day inactive or late-rotational and is able to competently play majority downs be season's end, you've seen a player brought along carefully and "slowly."
  20. JackBauer

    JackBauer Rookie

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    So, despite the fact they didn't draft an OLB this year, you think they're going to cut their best OLB after Adalius Thomas?
  21. efin98

    efin98 Rookie

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    Burned on about two big plays per game, I believe at least three TDs with one being a major one that took the team out of the game.

    I believe it Mike Reiss's Pieces blog, I believe he was surprised he made the cut last year...

    They cut guys last year with a thin depth at CB and LB. If he isn't playing up to their standards then he won't be there depth problems or not.

    Actually, yes I do think they would have signed him to that much of a deal if they were possibly going to cut him in the future if he didn't work out for them. If it works out that he isn't performing to their standards they will pay whatever guaranteed to him and he will be gone, and even then it's probably not much at all.


    I'll eat my hat if I'm wrong about him.
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2009
  22. RayClay

    RayClay Rookie

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    It's overstated. Playing time usually has more to do with need than anything. Because we don't rush players who aren't ready, we don't need to do it in the future. We certainly do it sometimes, but we are aware and give them support.

    Mayo was thrown in due to need, don't kid yourself. I'm sure he was mentored and advised to the max, but there was a hole. They threw Eugene Wilson in at a position he'd never played.

    When possible, they try to delay starting rookies and let the vets mentor and rookies learn. Seymour didn't start right away, Merriweather hardly played except on teams for a while. Ellis Hobbs was held out because of immaturity, I believe, while Duane Starks did his imitation of a peg leg pirate playing defensive back with major leg and shoulder injuries.

    The difference is, many teams feel they have to have that 1st rounder playing because the fans demand it. They get bad habits and big egos, and they start over next year replacing the same guy.
  23. RayClay

    RayClay Rookie

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    I think the low round picks excelling happens on all teams. It's more about the player than the team IMO.

    Dante took a bunch of FA, low rounders and made them decent, but we had a quick, short passing offense. Brady was codled, bur he was so efficient we snuck up on some people in 2001.

    Just shows what you can do with great play calling, execution and balance (3 yards and a cloud Antowain smith)
  24. JackBauer

    JackBauer Rookie

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    Well, I'd get prepared to eat your hat if I were you. The Patriots could have easily signed someone like Sean Jones for equal money, but chose not to do so.

    BB has also been very high on Sanders. I'd say there's a 5 percent chance he doesn't make the roster.
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2009
  25. RayClay

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    Pittsburgh also spends more on high rounders and expensive free agents at the LB position in a given year than we do in ten. We took advantage of a logjam at the position.
  26. TheGodInAGreyHoodie

    TheGodInAGreyHoodie Rookie

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    We can add a UDFA WR who didn't do much down in Mia and went to the prowbowl this year. Wes Welker.
  27. efin98

    efin98 Rookie

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    Tully Banta-Cain, Vince Redd, Shawn Crable would argue that sentiment about him being the best behind Thomas...
  28. JackBauer

    JackBauer Rookie

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    At this point, Woods looks like the best player of that group.

    They've been grooming Woods for a few a years now. Redd and Crable are pretty young and inexperienced to be full-time starters, and Banta-Cain is what he is... a situational player.

    Unless the Patriots bring someone else in, expect Woods to be the starter.
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2009
  29. fgssand

    fgssand PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    There cannot be a team of stars......NE development is not only for star starters - but must include all developed starters, back ups and special teamers. Add to that practice squad development and hell, might as well throw in the shadow roster as well.

    There are very few teams that have the consistent complete approach to everything they do. I am glad NE is one of the few.
  30. PushnPencils

    PushnPencils Rookie

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    As strange as this may sound. I'd add Bruschi.

    He was a fan favorite and scrappy player prior to BB's tenure as HC, but didn't achieve greatness until BB came along.
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