So We Lost 3 LB

[BelichickFan]

McGinest, Brown, Chatham.

That's it, right ? And we haven't added any of consequence. So I guess Claridge, Mincey and Roach are the favorites here to replace them. Realizing, of course, we may keep one less LB and one more Safety passing Chatham's ST role to a different position.

 

[dryheat44]

McGinest, Brown, Chatham.

That's it, right ? And we haven't added any of consequence. So I guess Claridge, Mincey and Roach are the favorites here to replace them. Realizing, of course, we may keep one less LB and one more Safety passing Chatham's ST role to a different position.

Gardner could easily play Chatham's role. He's probably better qualified than the three you've mentioned. I'm not sure he makes the team, but if we're concentrating on replacing player for player, Gardner makes the most sense.

 

[spacecrime]

McGinest, Brown, Chatham.

That's it, right ? And we haven't added any of consequence.

We're Doomed. We lost Chad Brown and Matt Chatham, linebackers of consequence.

 

[BelichickFan]

We're Doomed. We lost Chad Brown and Matt Chatham, linebackers of consequence.

I didn't mean to suggest they are - I was just asking if I'd forgotten anyone.

 

[BelichickFan]

Gardner could easily play Chatham's role. He's probably better qualified than the three you've mentioned. I'm not sure he makes the team, but if we're concentrating on replacing player for player, Gardner makes the most sense.

I guess that comes down to how the young guys look. Are they better to keep than the "proven" journeyman. Right now the Minceys and Roaches are fun to root for - we'll have to see how they look on the field.

 

[T-ShirtDynasty]

Saw the title and thought, "Why would he care about losing 3 pounds? He's an Atkins boy!" Obviously, this calls for more coffee.

 

[Pats726]

That is all...the McGinest shoes will be hard to fill..esp in the locker rom..but I think things will take care of themselves..A starting OLB..maybe a Vrabel and Colvin..unless TBC or another steps it up to play that role. I wonder if Roach or even Gardner in that ILB hole would be stronger. I know many combinations will be tried...Chatham?? Could go to another position ST or another LB...will be very interesting in camp!!

 

[BelichickFan]

Saw the title and thought, "Why would he care about losing 3 pounds? He's an Atkins boy!"

. . . Got my 16 oz bag of carrots ready to go

 

[BelichickFan]

That is all...the McGinest shoes will be hard to fill

Yeah, watching old games you realize how much McGinest was around the ball. Still, for all the concern about LB, the fact that he's the only one of consequence who we lost shows that it's not that bad.

 

[Ring 6]

I just dont think you can look at it that way.
We won't 'replace' the 2005 LB corps, we will build the 2006.

In essence Bruschi is replacing a lot of what Chad Brown did. After Bruschi came back Brown sat. On the other hand, it could be Beisel, with Vrabel rpelacing McGinest. TBC could be part of that. Claridge may carve out a role.
As far as I remember Chatham may not have played a single down of defense last year. He will be 'replaced' by a special teamer whether a LB, S, FB, TE, whatever.

The point is BB doesn't have a set role for LB#1,#2,#3,#4,#5,#6,#7.............
He creates the roles for the players based on what he has.

Thats why it confuses me when people want a "Ted Johnson ILB". Ted Johnson played Ted Johnson role. Roman Phifer played Roman PHifers role. They were very different. Every LB on the squad will play the role they fit, not the one someone else used to fit.

 

[edzo44]

The point is BB doesn't have a set role for LB#1,#2,#3,#4,#5,#6,#7.............
He creates the roles for the players based on what he has.
Thats why it confuses me when people want a "Ted Johnson ILB". Ted Johnson played Ted Johnson role. Roman Phifer played Roman PHifers role. They were very different. Every LB on the squad will play the role they fit, not the one someone else used to fit.

Close but not exactly quite what BB said in a post draft interview . . .

BB: If he’s good enough he’ll have an opportunity to. It comes down to, just like everybody else, however well they perform and whatever role they can create for themselves, that’s what every new player would have. That goes for everybody. Any new player coming on our team, they’ll have to establish it for themselves. It’s no different than anybody else.

And, when BB has seen the guy create a useful role for himself, then BB will figure the best way to utilize and add onto the role the player has created for himself to enhance it for the best benefit to the team. His goal is to make the best use out of his 53 "Role Players" that have earned their slot on the team. He is the maestro of the Pats orchestra!

This is a great thread!

 

[SeanBruschi54]

We also added a ton od safeties as well guys like Tebucky and Mel could slide in and grab a spot or two left open by some of those guys.

 

[mgteich]

We're all a bit lazy. Could you give us the list of linebackers and either time played or number of tackles on defense, in order to see what we are really replacing. For example, how much did Banta-Cain play?

I just dont think you can look at it that way.
We won't 'replace' the 2005 LB corps, we will build the 2006.

In essence Bruschi is replacing a lot of what Chad Brown did. After Bruschi came back Brown sat. On the other hand, it could be Beisel, with Vrabel rpelacing McGinest. TBC could be part of that. Claridge may carve out a role.
As far as I remember Chatham may not have played a single down of defense last year. He will be 'replaced' by a special teamer whether a LB, S, FB, TE, whatever.

The point is BB doesn't have a set role for LB#1,#2,#3,#4,#5,#6,#7.............
He creates the roles for the players based on what he has.

Thats why it confuses me when people want a "Ted Johnson ILB". Ted Johnson played Ted Johnson role. Roman Phifer played Roman PHifers role. They were very different. Every LB on the squad will play the role they fit, not the one someone else used to fit.

 

[bucky]

McGinest, Brown, Chatham.

That's it, right ? And we haven't added any of consequence. So I guess Claridge, Mincey and Roach are the favorites here to replace them. Realizing, of course, we may keep one less LB and one more Safety passing Chatham's ST role to a different position.

It's a bit of an oversimplification. You're really bringing up 2 issues here:

Issue 1 - Special Teams: Chatham's ST role won't be filled by a safety. But it very well could be filled by one of the TEs we drafted. As a matter of fact, I would expect Garrett Mills to be a core ST player this year and wouldn't be surprised if Thomas was one as well. This could give BB the roster flexibility to carry a lot less LBs. Certainy, I don't see us carrying 10 this year.

Issue 2 - LB Depth: This is a concern because last year's LB group already lacked depth. The Pats have had a pretty good 5-6 LB rotation going for most of the past 5 seasons. Last year, their rotations pretty much wilted down to 4 with Beisel and Brown making occasional appearances. Chatham isn't much of a LB, but when he had to step in and play in 2003, he was better than expected. Brown sucked as an everydown LB, but he still provided some depth as a coverage LB and a little flexibility being able to play OLB or ILB.

This year, I'm OK with the 4 starters (assuming Biesel is the 4th), but I have no idea what to expect beyond that. The only guy with any flexibility is Vrabel. If he should get hurt for any prolonged stretch of games, the defense could be in trouble.

 

[dryheat44]

This year, I'm OK with the 4 starters (assuming Biesel is the 4th), but I have no idea what to expect beyond that. The only guy with any flexibility is Vrabel. If he should get hurt for any prolonged stretch of games, the defense could be in trouble.

I'm instantly reminded of that game in 1999 or 2000, against Miami, where by the end of the game our three linebackers were Katzenmoyer, Vernon Crawford, and Lawyer Milloy. Such a spectacular run of injuries.

 

[Patriotic Fervor]

I'm instantly reminded of that game in 1999 or 2000, against Miami, where by the end of the game our three linebackers were Katzenmoyer, Vernon Crawford, and Lawyer Milloy. Such a spectacular run of injuries.

BTW, what is Andy Katzenmoyer doing these days?

 

[Ring 6]

We're all a bit lazy. Could you give us the list of linebackers and either time played or number of tackles on defense, in order to see what we are really replacing. For example, how much did Banta-Cain play?

No. I dont have time for that.
We all are pretty clear, I think, on the following facts:

Start of year before Bruschi

OLB: Vrabel, McG, Colvin rotated
ILB: Beisel and Brown
If anyone other than these 5 played at all it wasnt much

After Bruschi
OLB: McG and Colvin, with TBC subbing a bit
ILB: Bruschi and Vrabel

Beisel and Brown became role/situation players who did not play much at all.

 

[Lloyd_Christmas]

BTW, what is Andy Katzenmoyer doing these days?

Not showing up to work

Being a pain in the neck

President of the M.I.A. support group

He's a chiropractor now

Still consoling Dave Stechelski

Reminiscing about his Patriot "Glory Days" with Steve Martin and David Nugent

 

[Ochmed Jones]

A wanted to back to McGinest for a minute.

Tom Brady talked a little about Willie. He said something about everybody knowing where Willie was in the locker room, and about Willie being the guy that stood by the door as each player leaves the locker room and about Willie organizing the bus and the hotel and that type stuff.
And while that all plays a part in the Pats overall leadership structure, it is by no means irreplacable. Someone will pick up those tasks. Someone like a Rodney or Vrabel, but someone will take over that role.

The part of the leadership puzzle that Willie brings to the table, that I think the Pats really are going to miss, is the accountability piece. Willie was the first guy to get after players verbally when they screwed the pooch on the field.
Last year at training camp, Colvin made a mad dash up the field and totally ignored the RB circling by him to the flat. Flutie made an easy toss to the RB and he went down field. Willie came off the sidelines and started giving Colvin some grief, even before the coaches did. And then on the sideline, Willie was jawing to the rest of the players for a good two plays after the Colvin screw up.
Someone is going to need to fill that role. Another leadership role is going to be in the huddle. When you are on defense and it's third and three from your 30 yard yard line. Someone is going to need to look into the other 20 eyeballs and demand that someone makes a play. Not everyone can be that person. While I don't know this for a fact, it's easy to see Willie doing that last year. Next year someone else needs to be that guy.

PS: If Wilfork continues to grow as a player and get better, I think he has the temperament to be that kind of guy.

 

[Seymour93]

Not showing up to work

Being a pain in the neck

President of the M.I.A. support group

He's a chiropractor now

Still consoling Dave Stechelski

Reminiscing about his Patriot "Glory Days" with Steve Martin and David Nugent

Back in the real world, according to Wikipedia, Katzenmoyer is currently enrolled at OSU and a high school football coach...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andy_Katzenmoyer