So tell me what's wrong withn the Offense?

[RayClay]

I really think we have a lot of talent on offense and a lot of it's new. Going to take a while for 3 new receivers, TE and RB plus Evans and maybe Mills.

Lots of weapons. It's going to take time.

 

[Seymour93]

How much difference would Daniel Graham have made?

Was the Miami run D that good, or did we really miss Graham's superb run-blocking? Probably a combo of both, but it makes you think that maybe we need to pay high dollar for his services.

They're trying to make David Thomas into a little Grahambo, but he'll always be more of a pass catcher.

 

[BradyManny]

Miami is always tough. Don't forget Graham was out today.

I noticed Watson had to stay back to block on a few players, so Graham's absence hurt in many ways.

 

[Mike the Brit]

Enough said? 16 of 29 for 140 (4.8 YPA)? Enough to get a win but definitely not enough to be put so terse. When our running game struggles, as it did today, the passing game has got to be more effective than that. Teams will be putting an emphasis, and adjusting personnel accordingly, to stop the run against us. Their thought process will be 'let their less than stellar passing game try and beat us'. Brady's numbers and the passing game in general did nothing today to change that belief. We have new receivers and we have an evolving OL. I think it is understandable if BB and co. are thinking run then run some more. This gives time for the passing game to evolve. 16 of 29 for 140, 4.8 YPA with 2 td's and no int's ain't awful, however, turnovers helped our offense considerably. We cannot count on that week in and week out. If a team doesn't turn the ball over, limits us to slim rushing totals and keeps the passing game at 4.8 ypa at a 55% completion rate? That more often than not will be a loss.

You want more?

Well, the Pats were totally horrible on first down.

They had 25 first downs of which two were kneels (at the end of each half).

Of the remaining 23, 10 were passes or pass attempts and 13 were runs.

6 passes were incomplete, 1 led to a sack and three were complete for a total of 36 yards (7, 15, 14 yards respectively).

The 13 runs produced a total of 35 yards. Only 3 were for 5 yards or more (5, 6, 8 yards respectively).

If you have only 6 moderately successful plays out of 23 on first down, it becomes very, very difficult to get a fluent offense going.

Without the Miami penalties and turnovers, I very much doubt that we would have won.

 

[Patriotic Fervor]

He needs much work with new receivers and we've got a bye. 4-1, 3 division wins, life is good. Relax, have a beer.

That's the best, most cogent suggestion I've heard or seen today! Truly, my hat's off to you!

 

[onegameatatime]

It amazes me that the Pats have been so successful with such bad play calling forever.

But moving on ...

There does seem to be a Miami problem. Players have come and gone, and some are egttuing a little older (Thomas), but they still give us trouble. Surtain gone, Madison gone, Oglunwie (sp?) gone ... doesn't seem to matter.

 

[Mike the Brit]

NEM, you already have one rant thread going. Couldn't you keep to that one and leave this one to people who want to have a discussion?

Please?

 

[patsfan13]

Was the Miami run D that good, or did we really miss Graham's superb run-blocking? Probably a combo of both, but it makes you think that maybe we need to pay high dollar for his services.

They're trying to make David Thomas into a little Grahambo, but he'll always be more of a pass catcher.

Didn't see the game, (had to follow the gamecast) it sounded as though Brady was under pressure, don't forget Graham as a pass blocker or chipping speed rusners like Taylor to help the OT's out.

 

[Mike the Brit]

Instead of calling it a rant, discuss the items I wrote about. They are broken down, in detail, so discuss them, debate them, prove them wrong, or right...but thats what discussion is about. I posted my comments, as I saw them, now discuss them, one by one....show me where I am worng, if you can, instead of atttacking the messenger, go for the message.

20 posts into a thread you post a huge long diatribe that you copied and pasted from another thread. None of it responds to the points made earlier by other posters. I doubt that you even read them, let alone thought about them. You don't pay attention to others, and now we should respond to you. Really! Thanks for destroying the discussion.

 

[mgteich]

Re: So tell me what's wrong withn the Offense?

The answer is "nothing". We played a good defense and only won by 10. The offense needs to play well enough to win. They did. As of last week, we had the #4 offense. that will go down a bit. Is this offense so much worse than our Super Bowl offenses? Of course not!!!! Were those teams in much better position than we are now after 5 games? of course not!

Will this offense be better by the playoffs, even with no additions? Most likely. And if we need an addition, then bb and pioli will make the move.

We are what we are, a 4-1 team, with a soft schedule ahead, with work to do before the playoffs, and in as good shape to get to the Championship Game than almost any team in the conference.

 

[Pats Fanatic]

Re: So tell me what's wrong withn the Offense?

The answer is "nothing". We played a good defense and only won by 10. The offense needs to play well enough to win. They did. As of last week, we had the #4 offense. that will go down a bit. Is this offense so much worse than our Super Bowl offenses? Of course not!!!! Were those teams in much better position than we are now after 5 games? of course not!

Will this offense be better by the playoffs, even with no additions? Most likely. And if we need an addition, then bb and pioli will make the move.

We are what we are, a 4-1 team, with a soft schedule ahead, with work to do before the playoffs, and in as good shape to get to the Championship Game than almost any team in the conference.

Great post, it seams that people forget about the 2003 season with games like the Browns, Giants, Jets and Miami the first part of that year the offense looked awful. In fact the offense looks better now then at that it did at time. I have faith in this team to to improve, that is their history under Belichick.

 

[Mike the Brit]

Re: So tell me what's wrong withn the Offense?

The answer is "nothing". We played a good defense and only won by 10. The offense needs to play well enough to win. They did. As of last week, we had the #4 offense. that will go down a bit. Is this offense so much worse than our Super Bowl offenses? Of course not!!!! Were those teams in much better position than we are now after 5 games? of course not!

Will this offense be better by the playoffs, even with no additions? Most likely. And if we need an addition, then bb and pioli will make the move.

We are what we are, a 4-1 team, with a soft schedule ahead, with work to do before the playoffs, and in as good shape to get to the Championship Game than almost any team in the conference.

Well, OK, we did enough to win and I'm very happy about that. But it was against a second-tier team at best. If we want to go far in the play-offs we'll be up against opponents who won't give up the ball so easily.

The worrying fact for me is that I saw Brady looking tentative and hesitant far too often, especially on first down. I'm sure he will have better days but I expect more from him.

 

[Amnorix]

I'll post this on all these silly threads, just because of how extremely silly I think all of this discussion is. A comparison of today against Charlie Weis' last 3 efforts against the Miami Dolphins:


Stats against Dolphins:

Today:

Result: Win 20-10
1st Downs: 17
Total Net Yards: 213
Average Gain per Play: 3.3

http://www.sportsnetwork.com/merge/...ge=nfl/scores/final/boxscore.aspx?GAMEID=1855

Weis:

2004 Game 1
Result: Win 24-10
1st Downs: 14
Total net yards: 204
Average Gain per play: 3.5

http://www.sportsnetwork.com/merge/...ge=nfl/scores/final/boxscore.aspx?GAMEID=1173


2004 Game 2
Result: Loss 29-28
1st Downs: 24
Total net yards: 322
Average Gain per play: 4.7
Note: Offense immolates and loses game in last 5 minutes with multiple turnovers. 4 picks for Brady in the game

http://146.145.120.3/merge/tsnform.aspx?c=globe&page=nfl/scores/final/boxscore.aspx?GAMEID=1334



2003 Game 2
Result: Won 12-0
1st Downs: 13
Total Net yards: 228
Average Gain Per Play: 3.4

http://www.sportsnetwork.com/merge/...age=nfl/scores/final/boxscore.aspx?GAMEID=981

 

[Fencer]

NEM, while flailing around, did come in the vicinity of one valid point. Brady has typically led the Pats to unimpressive positive offensive results, but also a small number of TOs given up. He may have been doing an extreme form of that today. We know Brady tinkered with, or at least thought a lot about, his mechanics in the offseason. (The famed video analysis compare/contrasting his successful deep passes with the unsuccessful ones.) I wonder whether that turned out to be counterproductive. And put me down as somebody who thinks Graham's hands are annoyingly bad and still wants him to be kept for good money.

 

[Fencer]

And by the way, even after today's statistically questionable outing,* there are lots of teams that would be happy to exchange offensive production stats with the Pats, including ones that haven't had injury luck any worse than ours. *Not that scoring 20 points and giving up 0 TOs exactly counts as a bad game anyway.

 

[RayClay]

NEM, while flailing around, did come in the vicinity of one valid point. Brady has typically led the Pats to unimpressive positive offensive results, but also a small number of TOs given up. He may have been doing an extreme form of that today. We know Brady tinkered with, or at least thought a lot about, his mechanics in the offseason. (The famed video analysis compare/contrasting his successful deep passes with the unsuccessful ones.) I wonder whether that turned out to be counterproductive. And put me down as somebody who thinks Graham's hands are annoyingly bad and still wants him to be kept for good money.

I don't think so Fencer. Fact is, playing Miami, they're likely to pick him off if he gambles, so he's not going to open up til we need the points.

The second half drive was a little less conservative and we cashed in.

People forget, he got to work daily with Neion and Givens for 3-4 years. A lot of the routes require reading the D and cutting the route in one direction or the other.

A couple wrong guesses with new receivers and we have 2 picks and probably lose.

After the bye, a world of difference, I bet.

 

[AzPatsFan]

Re: So tell me what's wrong with the Offense?

Re: So tell me what's wrong within the Offense?

The answer is "nothing". We played a good Defense and only won by 10. The offense needs to play well enough to win. They did. As of last week, we had the #4 Offense. That will go down a bit. Is this offense so much worse than our Super Bowl offenses? Of course not!!!! Were those teams in much better position than we are now after 5 games? of course not!

Will this offense be better by the playoffs, even with no additions? Most likely. And if we need an addition, then BB and Pioli will make the move.

We are what we are, a 4-1 team, with a soft schedule ahead, with work to do before the playoffs, and in as good shape to get to the Championship Game than almost any team in the conference.

mgteich,

Thank You.

The Patriots Offense in the previous four years averaged 23 points a game, This team is averaging 22.7 points a game. Down by a few tenths a game. The two SB clubs together are at 25.5 points a game but that is not truly representative since one SB club was much closer to the average at 24 and the other was much higher than the four and outside the trend at 27 per game.

By comparison our defense has averaged yielding 18 points a game and in the SB teams 16.5 points a game. This team is averaging 14.25 points yielded a game. While the Offense is down slightly, the Defense is substantially better. At this pace, the Pats will yield just as many points as the great defensive oriented 2000 Ravens team did; and just slightly worse than the record setting '85 Bears.

In short there is nothing wrong with the O or D. We could be better and we will refine both. Certainly we could have padded the scores at the end of the Buffalo, NYJ and Miami games; Had BB chosen to he could have attempted at least a FG, and a successful one would have moved the average scoring right onto the pace of the last four very successful years.

 

[Jacky Roberts]

I am in Carlolina and the game was not on TV here in Charlotte.
We did not have any long passes over 15 yards? I thought with more practice we would open up the passing game again. You have to pass the ball longer than 15 yards to open up the field!
Did Miami stack the line against the run?
I know we are 4-1 BUT; without a passing game we won't go anywhere in the playoff's.

Maybe we should bring Bledsoe back, huh?