So, my common sense says, QB's don't decline or degrade at ridiculous rates.

[PatriotSeven]

I'm sure TB's skill set is declining at his age, but I'm actually reading comments that believe MNF's outcome are a result of his declining skill set as if he suffers from some rare degradation disease where a QB goes from a consecutive seasons throwing over 4000 yards, playoffs, AFCG, and Superbowl...to absolute **** in one offseason.

Yeah, I can't follow that one guys. So unless some sort of freak accident happened, I'd like to believe a decline is what it typically ends up being for any aging player, and that is gradual that you notice slowly over the years. And that's most likely what you will notice with TB as well.

Personally I have seen TB play much worse, and throw worse pics, with much better teams than what I saw on MNF. What we never had was a team that was this bad all around. But the 49ers game a couple of years ago...yeah that was pretty damn bad. He's had 3 or 4 interception games before as well. In my honest opinion, TB was actually fairly sharp for the first 3 quarters of that game, with my only fault on him being him not running for that first down when we may have still had a chance, but other than that there's not much for me to take away from the obvious implosion at the end of the game other than desperate playing in a desperate situation.

So my common sense won't let me to follow that line of instant deterioration thinking, without some sort of medical explanation, because it's just plain nuts. Now...if you want to say it's a psyche and mental thing, sure that I can buy. Perhaps the pressure, and running out of time and the lack of weapons is getting to him and no longer making the best decisions leading him to becoming some sort of basket case. But to those who are using this past game as PROOF of his declining skill, it's a little too much for me, because that would mean the level of decline he's experienced in one offseason is unheard of for an NFL QB or any other athlete at his level.

 

[Gunnails]

Tom has declined, but last night was not on him, he still has elite skills.

Needs an O line first and foremost.

 

[Joey007]

To answer the thread title.. Brett Favre?

 

[PatriotSeven]

To answer the thread title.. Brett Favre?

Are you backing my point? Because I remember Farve having one of the best seasons he's ever had, when he was over 40 with the Vikings and definitely went out on top.

 

[PatriotSpy]

Brady doesn't have the fluid hips to generate power like he used to. That's a natural degradation and it's only going to get worse HOWEVER, he's still a very good qb and if you give him elite weapons, he's gonna put up insane stats due to his accuracy and ability to read defenses. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if he went to Tampa or Houston before the deadline this year. The Pats do not fall in love with anyone and every decision has the best interests of the team in mind, financially and what not. I just don't think there's any way the Pats take on his contract money owed the next few years if they have him on the roster at the end of the year. no way.

 

[Joey007]

Are you backing my point? Because I remember Farve having one of the best seasons he's ever had, when he was over 40 with the Vikings and definitely went out on top.

You must've not followed football in 2010 then..

 

[PatriotSeven]

Brady doesn't have the fluid hips to generate power like he used to. That's a natural degradation and it's only going to get worse HOWEVER, he's still a very good qb and if you give him elite weapons, he's gonna put up insane stats due to his accuracy and ability to read defenses. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if he went to Tampa or Houston before the deadline this year. The Pats do not fall in love with anyone and every decision has the best interests of the team in mind, financially and what not. I just don't think there's any way the Pats take on his contract money owed the next few years if they have him on the roster at the end of the year. no way.

If the Pats organization aren't even willing to show a little love to one of GOATs then I'm not sure what to think of the Pats organization. Treating TB right and making sure he has a team to give a couple of more shots before rebuilding IS in the best interest of the team and their fans. I'm fully prepared to have some mediocre seasons once he retired to rebuild the team. I'm not prepared to do that now, before I'm certain there's no point in trying. And if they are, they better hope TB just retires, because unlike Manning who had a serious medical condition, and someone like Luck waiting to take the reigns, if TB goes somewhere else and does what Manning did, it's inexcusable. And if we don't find our Luck, then all **** will break loose.

 

[sb1]

Brady is the perfect combination of cerebral and physical skill for a QB. Guys like him do not decline nearly as fast as other athletes whose best attributes are just their physical skills. See Culpepper, Daunte.

 

[PatriotSeven]

You must've not followed football in 2010 then..

I'm not sure what your point is. That he had bad seasons before? If you're arguing skill degradation and declination due to age, then what happened in 2010 can't possibly be that. Those things are not reversible....last time I checked. Don't remember Farve going to Germany to get any sort of stem cell treatments either. So I'm going to say you're not following any sort of logic here.

 

[Joey007]

I'm not sure what your point is. That he had bad seasons before? If you're arguing skill degradation and declination due to age, then what happened in 2010 can't possibly be that. Those things are not reversible....last time I checked. Don't remember Farve going to Germany to get any sort of stem cell treatments either. So I'm going to say you're not following any sort of logic here.

What? All I'm saying is he was great in 2009, then in 2010 he was horrible.

 

[dales804]

I'm not sure what your point is. That he had bad seasons before? If you're arguing skill degradation and declination due to age, then what happened in 2010 can't possibly be that. Those things are not reversible....last time I checked. Don't remember Farve going to Germany to get any sort of stem cell treatments either. So I'm going to say you're not following any sort of logic here.

Favre was real bad in 2010 for Minnesota is his point. 11TDs, 19INTs in his final season while playing 13 games. He was great in 2009, though.

 

[PatriotSeven]

Favre was real bad in 2010 for Minnesota is his point. 11TDs, 19INTs in his final season while playing 13 games. He was great in 2009, though.

What? All I'm saying is he was great in 2009, then in 2010 he was horrible.

Ok but the argument is about rapid degradation. How could Farve do what he did at 40 in Minnesota, if 2010 was a sign of his rapid degradation due to age?

If that was a sign of a skillset degradation due to age, then it makes 0 sense for him to ever bounce back the way he did when he was even older. It's irreversible. A 16 game NFL season at 40 isn't exactly something you just take a deep breath for, and keep it in your chest for half a year to give it one last shot. You either still got it or you don't.

 

[hwc]

I don't see the decline in the Pats offense as :"instantaneous". Although they have been able to rack up numbers with occasional quick strikes and sustained drives, this offense has been sputtering with som regularity for a couple of years now. It was dreadful for most of last year. What we are seeing so far this year seems to me to be a continuation of those struggles.

Whether or not any of that decline belongs on the QB is something I'll leave to the experts.

 

[SammyBlueCat]

Tom is not a great runner. He never was so he will not start BUT considering what is going on around around him , he may need to run for his life.

On a serious note, how stringent is the physical that the players undergo prior to training camp?

 

[pheenix11]

In a somewhat related topic, why the hell didn't Brady run for that easy first down last night? My dead grandmother could have picked that one up with her walker.

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

In a somewhat related topic, why the hell didn't Brady run for that easy first down last night? My dead grandmother could have picked that one up with her walker.

If you saw the replay...he wasn't getting the first. He would have got nailed while still having to punt.

 

[Sciz]

In a somewhat related topic, why the hell didn't Brady run for that easy first down last night? My dead grandmother could have picked that one up with her walker.

Because it wasn't an easy first down. He was going to have to either juke or power through an LB to make it there. The LB was closer to the first down line than Brady was.

 

[Gronk]

I just don't think there's any way the Pats take on his contract money owed the next few years if they have him on the roster at the end of the year. no way.

a) this strikes me as a huge overreaction to one game. maybe 4 games, sure. nothing that has happened this year is overly encouraging, but surely 13 years of excellence is not nothing. better to lose a guy a year too early than a year too late and all that, but still, it's Tom F'n Brady. if nothing else the consideration that doing anything to him without evidence beyond a reasonable doubt would make the Pats look totally **** in the eyes of their fans buys a little time.

b) his cap hits for a QB aren't that big. $13/14/15 cap hits over 2015-17, and $18/12/6 as dead money numbers over that time. i don't think there's enough evidence to say that they're better off paying $18 next year to NOT have Brady than $13 to HAVE him. anyone who does, well, you're probably ******ed. you might end up being right, who knows? but not nearly enough data to make that type of decision.

c) given that Tom Brady is, well, TOM ****ING BRADY (reminder: you're not), this isn't a situation where a trade or cut of a player is simply left to the coach. he is the FRANCHISE, the man, the legend, the kingmaker of all that has been New England football for the past decade-plus. this goes to the top. any situation where TB would be cut, moved, traded, whatever in any capacity goes all the way to Kraft. it ain't happening. not now. it sucks that they're struggling, but really people need to...

d) GET A ****ING GRIP. if they're **** after 4 more games, come talk ****. spoiled fanbase, whatever you want to call it, but jesus. tom, the team, the coach...they've earned more than 4 games to throw them under the bus.

e) i have loved watching TB play since he first went in for Bledsoe. it's been a pleasure. i actually became a Pats fans because i felt bad for them getting destroyed by the Bears in Super Bowl XX when i was a kid (i'm from illinois). when they sucked, i wanted them to get better. i loved watching air Bledsoe in the mid-90s for that reason, new Marino and all that. when he came out and TB in, i loved that too. fire-hearted kid who got called a game manager because no one understood, blossomed into the GOAT, and now is "suffering" from a regression due to age, surrounding talent, whatever. i hope TB hangs a 50-burger on the Bengals if for no other reason than to confuse the **** out of everyone (or just shut them up), but i realize that probably won't happen. i'll take a win. you grind this **** out one game at a time. that's what the Pats did when they were 11-5, it's what they did when they were 16-0. whoop that ass one game at a time. don't give up yet. there's a lot of talent here.

 

[Peachhead]

In a somewhat related topic, why the hell didn't Brady run for that easy first down last night? My dead grandmother could have picked that one up with her walker.

From they angle we saw on TV it may have looked that way, but..

And this is just speculation: I think he was surprised to step thru that rush in one piece and may have been expecting to get clobbered from behind before he took another step. Nevermind run 2 or 3 yards. That kind of thing happens when you have zero confidence in your O-line.

 

[hwc]

I just don't think there's any way the Pats take on his contract money owed the next few years if they have him on the roster at the end of the year. no way.

Yes. Looking at Miguel's cap pages, the additional $24 million becoming fully guaranteed if Brady is on the roster for the final game of THIS season looms large. There's a big difference between an $18 million cap hit to trade him and a $42 million cap hit (if I'm interpreting things correctly). Tough situation with a QB who is barely above the Gabbert Line (avg 5.5 yards per passing attempt).