Welcome to PatsFans.com

So much for progress in Iraq

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Patters, Jun 14, 2008.

  1. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    17,839
    Likes Received:
    143
    Ratings:
    +192 / 4 / -6

    Oh well, the reports of progress in Iraq may have been too hopeful. The righties should never get their hopes up with this administration, given it's awesome record of failure. And, sadly when it comes to Iraq, McCain is a clone of Bush.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/06/13/AR2008061302019.html

    The Bush administration's Iraq policy suffered two major setbacks Friday when Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki publicly rejected key U.S. terms for an ongoing military presence and anti-American Shiite cleric Moqtada al-Sadr called for a new militia offensive against U.S. forces.

    During a visit to Jordan, Maliki said negotiations over initial U.S. proposals for bilateral political and military agreements had "reached a dead end." While he said talks would continue, his comments fueled doubts that the pacts could be reached this year, before the Dec. 31 expiration of a United Nations mandate sanctioning the U.S. role in Iraq.

    The moves by two of Iraq's most powerful Shiite leaders underscore how the presence of U.S. troops has become a central issue for Iraqi politicians as they position themselves for provincial elections later this year. Iraqis across the political spectrum have grown intolerant of the U.S. presence, but the dominant Shiite parties -- including Maliki's Dawa party -- are especially fearful of an electoral challenge from new, grass-roots groups.
  2. otis p. driftwood

    otis p. driftwood Rookie

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2008
    Messages:
    5,271
    Likes Received:
    4
    Ratings:
    +4 / 0 / -0

    McCain might also be (depending on your point of view) better on Iraq. Don't forget, he's been calling from the beginning for more troops and more force, get the job done.
  3. cupofjoe1962

    cupofjoe1962 Rookie

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2008
    Messages:
    2,594
    Likes Received:
    28
    Ratings:
    +51 / 13 / -9

    Liberals love it when things don't go as planned for our military.

    If the news was positive.....You would never see it posted by a liberal.
  4. otis p. driftwood

    otis p. driftwood Rookie

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2008
    Messages:
    5,271
    Likes Received:
    4
    Ratings:
    +4 / 0 / -0

    And mostly a right leaner wouldn't post negative news. What's the point really?
    :D
  5. PressCoverage

    PressCoverage Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2005
    Messages:
    8,609
    Likes Received:
    13
    Ratings:
    +13 / 0 / -0

    Not good...

    Maliki's comments came as Sadr called for a new armed wing of his Mahdi Army militia to fight U.S. troops. Sadr had ordered the militia to cease carrying weapons last August -- a leading factor in the recent decline in violence -- although U.S. military officials have asserted that renegade militia units have continued the fight under instructions from Iran.

    Sadr aides, some of whom appeared surprised by the cleric's announcement, said he wanted to issue the order now to avoid seeming as if he was responding to a U.S.-Iraqi agreement if one is reached by the July deadline.

    ...

    The new group, Sadr's statement said, would operate in "total secrecy" and attack only American forces. "The resistance will be restricted to a group authorized by a written letter from us soon," it said. "Arms will be restricted to them and they may only point them towards the occupier."
  6. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    17,839
    Likes Received:
    143
    Ratings:
    +192 / 4 / -6

    This is a politics forum, not a history forum. Thus, bad news and good news is political fodder. Should Obama becomes president, I'm sure the righties will be posting similar stories if he has any failures, military or otherwise. Regardless, though, this is bad news. The best news would be for Iraq to stabilize as an American ally and Obama to get elected, but really I don't think Iraq will be stabilized for at least a generation regardless of who is president. War does that.
  7. otis p. driftwood

    otis p. driftwood Rookie

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2008
    Messages:
    5,271
    Likes Received:
    4
    Ratings:
    +4 / 0 / -0

    Well, at least you were half right...;)
  8. Stokes

    Stokes Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2006
    Messages:
    2,423
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    Wow Patters, you really think stalled negotiations, and rantings from Sadr (who's been getting his ass kicked by both US and Iraqi forces) negates the military and political gains that have been made? These things are problems to overcome, they don't undo all the progress that has been made since the time the surge began. Of course maybe you WANT there to be no progress, and that's where your assessment comes from.
  9. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    17,839
    Likes Received:
    143
    Ratings:
    +192 / 4 / -6

    There's naturally some satisfaction when one's point of view is vindicated, but peace would be equally satisfying. I think what you're doing is called "projection."
  10. otis p. driftwood

    otis p. driftwood Rookie

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2008
    Messages:
    5,271
    Likes Received:
    4
    Ratings:
    +4 / 0 / -0

    And what is your point of view? You want a stable, peaceful Iraq, and you want US soldiers out.

    Guess what--so do 90 odd percent of us. The only question is the best way to do it, and leaving flat-footed now, like we bugged out of Vietnam, isn't the way to do it.

    So wouldn't it make more sense for everyone to work together as hard as we can to "win" and get out?
  11. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    17,839
    Likes Received:
    143
    Ratings:
    +192 / 4 / -6

    I think as long as American troops are there, the radicals have a raison d'etre and continue to grow in strength. Once we go home, Iraq will go through a difficult period, but the radicals will lose their influence. We have consistently seen progress and setbacks in both Afghanistan and Iraq; in that sense nothing has changed.
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2008
  12. otis p. driftwood

    otis p. driftwood Rookie

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2008
    Messages:
    5,271
    Likes Received:
    4
    Ratings:
    +4 / 0 / -0

    I don't really disagree with that (ready for the but?), but (see, there it is!) I don't know why the radicals would lose their influence. If the US pulled out today, leaving just the Embassy troops, how long do you think it would be before full scale civil war broke out?

    That might not be a bad thing--except if unsavory types gain control of yet more oil.

    One thing that 'you guys' always seem to overlook is that those people (ME radicals) hate the US simply for existing. It exacerbates the hate when we're there, but we weren't in Afghanistan or Iraq in 2001, after all.
  13. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2006
    Messages:
    26,994
    Likes Received:
    189
    Ratings:
    +437 / 5 / -2

    Hmm...so let me get this straight. You're saying we're not making progress in Iraq because we haven't reached an accord with the freely elected government, on how our future military presence will be constituted? :rofl:

    Yeah, that's some catostrophic news dude. I know, though, you want us to succeed there. Anyhow, tell me about this in December when the UN (zzzzzz) mandate expires.
  14. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2006
    Messages:
    26,994
    Likes Received:
    189
    Ratings:
    +437 / 5 / -2

    Another supporter of success. :rolleyes: The people in the regions where these militia's operated, welcomed the IA with open arms. The people want the government to control the streets, and not the militia's. Sadr's been pushed between a rock, and a hard place. He knows it too.
  15. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    17,839
    Likes Received:
    143
    Ratings:
    +192 / 4 / -6

    It's obviously a setback. I'm not saying we haven't made progress, but the progress is pretty minimal by most measures. Check out the American casualties, for instance:

    http://icasualties.org/oif/

    There's been improvement, but not all that much. While there may be some other successes as well, the news shows there are also setbacks. We may have installed an Iran-friendly government where there used to be a balance of power in the ME thanks to Saddam.

    Could be. Time will tell.
  16. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2006
    Messages:
    26,994
    Likes Received:
    189
    Ratings:
    +437 / 5 / -2

    :rofl: The radicals are getting roasted over there pal. Maybe that's why you're so upset. Poor Patters. Not only does he hate our military, but he also wants us to lose. [​IMG]
  17. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    17,839
    Likes Received:
    143
    Ratings:
    +192 / 4 / -6

    Did you hear about the several hundred Taliban who were freed in Afghanistan? Did you hear that Iran has chosen to pursue its nuclear program rather than accept incentives? Did you hear that the leaders of Iraq, including Sadr, are getting closer to Iran and not cooperating with the US? The radicals are power, bud, but at least we're handling one group, Al Qaeda.
  18. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2006
    Messages:
    26,994
    Likes Received:
    189
    Ratings:
    +437 / 5 / -2

    Yeah, the progress has been real minimal. :rolleyes: Why even speak with someone like you on what's currently going on in Iraq? You're by far the least objective, most partisan person in this forum. Iraq has basically done a 180 since the surge was implemented. Most reasonable people understand that it isn't an oasis of peace and prosperity, but it is clearly headed in the right direction, and 1,000 times better than it was last year. It's truly pathetic that members of the extremist, liberal left, like yourself, are openly rooting for us to lose. You can talk about how you don't, and you might not say it expressly, but we all know that your kind quietly hopes for chaos, so that it improves your chances come November. What else would people expect from someone who thinks that it's ok to exploit the molestation of children, for political gain.

    At least you're hoping so. :rolleyes:
  19. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2006
    Messages:
    26,994
    Likes Received:
    189
    Ratings:
    +437 / 5 / -2

    I thought Iran didn't have a nuclear plan? Your kind are truly pathetic. The government is doing exactly what everyone has been saying they should, for 5+ years now. They're working with their "allies" in trying to settle this peacefully, through diplomacy. What's your beef with what's going on with Iran?

    Yeah, they attacked a prison with suicide truck bombers, and freed some losers that'll hopefully be dead in a few weeks. I guess that means we lost the TWAT? Did you open some champaign when you heard the news?

    Sadr could be sleeping with Ahmenajad for all I care. Iran and Iraq are bordering nations. The fact that Malaki meets with them is to be expected. Meeting doesn't mean they're partners in crime. Malaki was the man who ordered the military operation in Basra, that your kind were joyously calling a failure in it's early days. How'd that work out for ya? Keep hoping we lose over there, and overseas. It's very extremist of you. ;)
  20. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    17,839
    Likes Received:
    143
    Ratings:
    +192 / 4 / -6

    I'm not rooting for us to lose. I don't think we can win. I think you're seeing things through rose colored glasses. We maintain a less than ideal situation as long as we maintain the surge. If you buy McCain's 100 year war idea, we might be able to maintain our "progress." You should reflect on your own biases before passing judgment. Sometimes I wonder if you lack the ability to reflect on your own views. As I said, there's been progress, but it's been minimal, largely negated b the problems Iran presents in the region.

Share This Page

unset ($sidebar_block_show); ?>