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So Michael Sam Is Gay, Who Cares? Can He Rush The QB?

Discussion in 'Religion and Lighthearted Discussion' started by PatsFans.com Article, Feb 10, 2014.

  1. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I took it as you summarizing the debate, which was soft selling the antigay comments as 'disagreeng but accepting'.
    The left handed thing was idioitc.

    No you totally missed the point.
    You acting as if saying to your friend what he does is gross but you won't hold it against him is the same as telling a minority that something unique to them is gross but you look the other way.
    Such as telling an Asian, "those slanty eyes are really creepy, but I won't hold that against you and I'll still let you be my friend".
     
  2. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    No one has uttered a word that conflicts with this.
     
  3. fnordcircle

    fnordcircle brady plz PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I'm more concerned with how someone will treat a gay person than what they believe about being gay. That's all society should care about as well. As long it doesn't result in discrimination I'm not sure why anyone would care.
     
  4. PP2

    PP2 In the Starting Line-Up

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    And 80+ pages of bigotry coming from you, including bizarre advices such as where homosexuals should 'bounce their eyes away from selective targets' or train their minds not to dwell on sex, or something like that.
     
  5. PP2

    PP2 In the Starting Line-Up

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    I think he is just playing dumb as it seems he has nothing useful to say or do anything else than trying to goad.
     
  6. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I could believe that Boogs is a nice guy, but the problem is someone has convinced Boogs that his version of right and wrong or natural and unnatural is better than anyone who disagrees with him.

    As I said before this isn't an argument about my opinion and beliefs about gayness or Boogs opinion and beliefs about gayness is right or wrong, but that the correct opinion about gayness is the actual gay person opinion and beliefs.

    I have not attempted to argue that my opinion on the topic is right, I have argued that it is up to the person who is gay to decide the morality, right or wrong and feelings about it, and the rest of us should allow them to do as they see fit.

    "God says you are wrong" is bigotted because it is stating that my opinion about you is better than your opinion about you, and God is on my side.
     
  7. PP2

    PP2 In the Starting Line-Up

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    #12 Jersey

    There are still slaves around..especially sex slaves.
     
  8. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Given the thread bedazzled may have been a better choice. :D
     
  9. PP2

    PP2 In the Starting Line-Up

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    Primetime made an excellent point a few pages back when he (I'm assuming it is a he) stated that no matter how carefully concealed, a person's bigotry or righteous opinion, will always show through in some way, shape, or form.

    So Condon84 can be nice to gay people all he wants, including his gay son, but his belief that gay sex is unnatural and furthermore his belief that there can be no other viewpoints to this (including the possibility that gay people do not find what they do to be unnatural), will find a way to manifest themselves, even if unconsciously.
     
  10. Mountain_Commando

    Mountain_Commando Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    Then it is you who missed the point. I would never tell someone something about them is "gross" or "creepy", and not realize that I'm being hurtful. You may not believe me, but I'm really not THAT dense.

    If I say I don't understand something, does that make me hateful?
     
  11. mb6592

    mb6592 Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    You know what you're doing. And it's kind of childish. Nothing I wrote was confusing. I explained that some heterosexual males engage in various (CONSENSUAL) sex acts with other males during their incarceration and some do not. I showed this example to illustrate the complexity of human sexuality. Given this complexity it should not shock that there are differing views on the subject. I then asked if it was improper for religious types to attach a morality judgment to this type of behavior from heterosexual males. Are they bigots if they do? I then presented a logical sequitur (should the public, in this age of enlightenment, accept three people marrying?) which you, of course, glossed over. Finally, I tried to explain why the religious types do what they do. I explained their belief that that a world with morality (however you define it) banished from the public square (leave it in your homes and speak about it in only in whispers) is untenable. To all this you feigned ignorance or lack of understanding. Whatever.
     
  12. fnordcircle

    fnordcircle brady plz PatsFans.com Supporter

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    So you will accept nothing but full assimilation to your world view? Hopefully we can get the re-education camps going soon.

    As long as someone doesn't stand in the way of consenting adults engaging in whatever behavior they choose and does not deny them employment, housing or services due to any other consenting adults I don't care about the sort of nebulous 'manifestations' to which you're referring.

    Demanding that everyone must believe what I believe is a stupid way to live. But it is how you have come across in this thread no matter how conciliatory the 'bigots' have been.
     
  13. Mountain_Commando

    Mountain_Commando Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    Then you and I agree.

    But you will (hopefully) agree, that many overly-PC people do NOT agree with 'live and let live', and least not by way of their actions. For them, it's their way completely, else it's bigotry. There's no in-between.

    And THAT is what ticks off people of moderate and conservative mindsets alike. Such people are doing the greatest disservice to their own cause. It's exactly due to their extremism on the other end of the spectrum, that they sometime end up alienating and even antagonizing otherwise fair and liberal people.
     
  14. PP2

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    I only pointed out that his viewpoints will eventually show itself.

    Why have you interpreted this to mean that everyone must believe as I believe?

    I am only stating an interesting point that was raised by someone else. I would think that after this many pages, you would understand what my position is.

    Once again, people have a right to their opinions, and to decide what is 'natural' and 'unnatural,' for themselves, but once they try to impose their views on other people, instead of respecting that what they see as 'unnatural' is not necessarily that, from the viewpoint of other people, then I will unhesitantly call them out on their bigotry.
     
  15. condon84

    condon84 In the Starting Line-Up

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    There is no such thing as a stupid way to live. PP2 is just livin:rofl:
     
  16. condon84

    condon84 In the Starting Line-Up

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    Extremists never know that their stance is extreme.
     
  17. fnordcircle

    fnordcircle brady plz PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Because I can do math and your statement clearly indicates that no matter what someone's beliefs will ultimately influence their behavior and the bigotry will come out.

    I just don't appreciate totalitarianism in all of its forms. I'm probably more liberal than most and I'm likely the only person in this whole thread who ever had a sexual relationship with someone of the same sex.

    But I've lived long enough to learn that brow beating and tossing out judgmental labels does nothing to truly change viewpoints. At best it merely marginalizes the opposing viewpoint when enough join in. Maybe I'm too idealistic but that's not the world I want to live in.

    I truly believe that reaching common ground and working from there is the best way to change people's views. That tolerating intolerance and engaging people as human beings not punching bags is more likely to open someone's eyes. If Boogs wants to believe that the relationship I had is wrong that's fine with me as long as it ends there - with his belief.

    But I'm naive, I guess.
     
  18. Mountain_Commando

    Mountain_Commando Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    Well said, fnord. Through the whole thread, I recalled that you're bi. And yet I applaud your acceptance of differing opinions.

    I can't understand why you'd like a guy, any more than I understand why a woman would like a guy. I am aware of the differences in masculine and feminine traits, and which of each can be sexually attractive. So the same masculine traits which attract females are attractive to you. I get that on an intellectual level, but not on an emotional level, but I'd still have a beer with you and discuss the Pats and rip on the Jets (and since you're bi, we can even be wingmen at the bar).

    So does that make me a bigot/hateful/close-minded etc? (rhetorical question, I'm just taking this opportunity to illustrate the point again).
     
  19. Joker

    Joker PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    not so fast there, bunky...I have sex with myself almost every night...I just call my alter ego Lefty Palmer...
     
  20. PP2

    PP2 In the Starting Line-Up

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    So why aren't you having that discussion with boogs so that you both can reach common ground?

    I am not interested in changing people's point of views, or their opinions. That is a waste of my time. I don't think anyone here will leave this thread with a substantially changed opinion or attitude. However I will call out a bigot when I believe I see one.

    I am not going to stand idle if I see what I feel is a wrong. I do not believe it is right for a person to engage in bigotry as far as telling, suggesting, or insinuating to another person that their lifestyle is wrong. In many ways, those subtle suggestions are far worse than outright hatred.

    Boogs and others claim that there is nothing wrong with having opinions that what certain people do are 'unnatural' and claim they would not impose those opinions, but at the same time boogs says that he would tell a gay teammate to "keep details of his sex life to himself" as if he would do the same to a straight teammate?

    I am not threatened by the lifestyles of gay people, diversity, ethnicity, liberalism, whatever they do is fine by me, and it is none of my business, except when another person is adversely affected, whether physically, mentally, or verbally, as a result of bigotry or oppression.
     

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