So it appears that the Pats got a low 1st high 2nd pick in Cannon.

[DaBruinz]

We seem to go through this every year. What's on the Patriots board is not what defines a reach/steal. What defines a reach/steal is a comparison of where the general consensus has a player going with where that player actually goes.

Cannon's a steal if he recovers and can play, because he was originally viewed as a high round pick who ended up getting taken low due to his problems. The RBs are reaches because they were viewed as being lower picks. Whether any of them are quality players is a different question.

It's fine to trot out the "BB's draft board is different!" argument as a way of saying that you don't care if a player is a reach. However, that doesn't change the player to being a non-reach and, if it did, it would negate the "steal/great value" argument in the other direction since, if BB's draft board is different, claims that a player was supposed to go higher simply don't apply because the same "Patriots have a different board" aspect would be in play.

So, Ridley is a reach because you compared Apples to Oranges??

Neither RB was a reach by either definition. Vereen carried a grade between the 2nd and 4th round.. Ridley was rated as high as a 3rd and as low as a 6th..


Every year you attempt to make up some willy-nilly non-sensical explanation as to what defines a reach and what doesn't. Every year, people tell you that you can't compare apples to oranges, yet you do so in the hopes that no one will call you on it..

 

[DaBruinz]

You've got it pretty much backwards.

No.. YOU are the one who has it backwards.. As is your modus operandi. If someone disagrees with you and actually knows what they are talking about, you claim they are wrong and that you are right.

 

[malenurse2010]

I remember hearing Kiper saying that Vollmer was a reach in the 2nd round.
He said he had the kid rated as a mid 4th round player with upside.

I remember thinking.... why did we draft him in the 2nd round.

A year later I see a Don Banks of SI, redraft that has Vollmer going
#8 overall in the 2009 draft.

Michael Oher to Lions, Percy Harvin to Chiefs - Don Banks - SI.com

That list looks pretty atrocious 2 years out, he was still going a good deal on draft hype, I mean Beanie Wells hasn't shown any positives and Banks put him 10 spots higher?

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

You do realize that he's been keeping his strength up and hasn't been affected by Chemo, though he's had a couple of treatments already.. No nausea. Not bone aches.. no side affects.

Could he still be affected later? Sure.. But the longer he goes without being affected, the less likely it is..

No I do not realize that, nor do you. He's had only the initial treatments. Three or less to follow. The results are medically unpredictable. Even this less destructive chemo process weakens organs, perhaps noticeably, perhaps not. Stats tell us that the odds are that he'll be cancer free. But people gloss over that he will not be returning to a desk job but instead will be asked to compete at an elite level far above college ball.
Odds are PUP. Why did 31 teams blow through many late rounds ignoring this 1st/2nd round talent? Because they wrote him off for 2011. BB takes the long view. Any play in 2011 is an upside but will be tough if he misses training camp, if there is any.

 

[Haley]

I realize we all really want him to be out there this year but he is going to take whatever time he needs, and well he should. It may turn out that we got a 1st/2nd rounder 2012 out of this instead of the 2011 that we greatly desire. But in either case it was a steal. Not many people would trade away a 2012 low 1st/high 2nd for a 2011 5th round!!

 

[Patjew]

Yeah and it appears BB spent 2 third round picks on running backs he could have gotten much later in the draft. Ya just never know...

Just so you know, your posts are the only reason I'm not looking forward to moving back to RI next month.

 

[sbpatfan]

That list looks pretty atrocious 2 years out, he was still going a good deal on draft hype, I mean Beanie Wells hasn't shown any positives and Banks put him 10 spots higher?

I just took a look too, that list is terrible. I don't think he put more than five minutes of effort into it. Really, Sean Smith in the first round? He's been terrible.

 

[The Scrizz]

I just took a look too, that list is terrible. I don't think he put more than five minutes of effort into it. Really, Sean Smith in the first round? He's been terrible.

He wrote that the same season they were drafted, it's from Dec, 2009. I actually don't see the point of posting it.

 

[mrscruff]

Stevan Ridley was given a third round grade by the NFL Advisory Committee as noted by CBSDraftScout

Stevan Ridley, LSU, NFL Draft - CBSSports.com - NFLDraftScout.com

It is interesting to note that the NFL Advisory Committee "is not looking for an average grade; they are looking for a consensus opinion" from teams asked to evaluate the player pre-draft according to this article.

This is as close to a team draft board we are going to get although you still have to take it with a pinch of salt. I guess unless a GM comes out and explicitly states they would have picked a player at so and so spot we will never have a true idea of whether the player was a reach or not.

Whether the Patriots could have obtained Ridley later in the draft is just speculation. There is nothing to say that the teams who evaluated him as a third round talent for the NFL Advisory Committee would have picked him anyway if the opportunity had arisen due to other pressing needs or duplication on the roster.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

Cannon is a huge question mark, but the beauty of perpetually having a stockpile of picks and relatively few needs is that you can take flyers on high-upside guys with some issues. Both Mallet (supposedly, though the more I look, the less impressed I am by his "off the field issues") and Cannon are in this category.

Can't phrase it this way for Mallet, but say Cannon makes it through and just plain beats the lymphoma.

Well, we know about his talent - but how is this kid going to look at NE, the team that took the chance on him?

That's got to feel good, if you're him. Especially since he'd be looking at the whole thing from the POV of someone trying to move on to post-college "normal" work, at the same time as trying to beat cancer, if a team didn't pick him. That's got to go through his head, or at least would have to seeing himself drop and drop and drop... "Holy crap, what if I don't get drafted?"

Okay nuff said. I wish him well whatever the outcome, but I really want him to beat this, for the Pats of course, but even more just for him.

PFnV

 

[BTTA]

I wish him well whatever the outcome, but I really want him to beat this, for the Pats of course, but even more just for him.PFnV

And then watch him on the big screen at Murphy's!

 

[TheSolderKing]

First Cannon needs to complete his chemo series. Then assuming he's cancer free, not a given, he can rebuild his strength. I see him starting on PUP at the very best and most likely IR for 2011. He seems like a great guy, and I wish him the very best.

chemo sucks I lost so much muscle mass. He gets paid to work out.

I have another disease to that effed my sports. **** happens it's life. I am a sword forged by the FIRES of STRUGGLE. (me). He will be an even stronger man for enduring this battle.


Muscle Memory is real. His health is more important I am pulling for this guy immensely. I haven't been in gym in 1.5 yrs but let me tell u.... Muscle Memory is / The human body is simply amazing.


Chemotherapy sucks... I lost my D1 ;linebacker physique a lil over 6 inches off of each arm. I'm no longer hungry all the time. I am a mere shadow of myself now.... still BIG 225 much much less MASS. Gotta lose some fat... I have a small gut fpr first time in my life.

I think Anti-Deppresants had their share at doing that


I will never be 215 10% Bodyfat again. W/e **** happens. Struggles make u better mentally.

Cannon I respect you and I am a fan. Both u and Herzlich are a testament of being WARRIORS....

it is how you conduct it is how you carry and compose yourself in terrible times that determines who you are. You men are FIGHTERS. (me) my quote I made


FIGHTERS FIGHT. You will gain back all that is lost w/ being paid to work out w/ trainers top supps etc.

I do not have that luxury. I ill be back at it c. Mid May when Skool ends.

Chemo su cks guys,

I hope they hit the WEIGHTS ANGRY w/ ATTITUDE and (HARD) w/ a chip on their shoulders like I will. Good luck Gentleman I feel you.

 

[goheels22002]

The ravages of chemo on the average person, and especially on older people- yes that takes quite a bit out of you, but we are talking about a young man in great shape. We're talking about an athlete, whose diagnosis is a benign mass so the chemo treatment is most probably mild.

Thank you Dr. Psycho. Your screen name is most useful in this context.

There is no predicting what this kid's course of treatment and recovery means for his ability to play pro football.

As a 2011 pick in the 5th round, it's the best possible scenario for him and the Patriots . He won't be lifting a playbook until late August at the earliest and maybe well into the season. Finding a way to use the idiocy of the owners by jerking around the players with the CBA is classic Kraft/Belichick. Being a "large market" (i.e., profitable) team give the Pats the freedom to take this sort of risk.

Thios kid is good, a good person and his family reminds me of Jon Lester's in the way they support him in his fight with cancer and determination to play professional sports. Good luck to him.

I hope Logan Mankins is paying attention to this. Where else will he go where the ownership and team management would do this sort of thing?

 

[goheels22002]

No.. YOU are the one who has it backwards.. As is your modus operandi. If someone disagrees with you and actually knows what they are talking about, you claim they are wrong and that you are right.

You guys quibble like a couple of old ladies.

Everybody agrees this was an odd draft. No one knows what the hell it means until camp begins and the CBA reveals itself. This could be genius or this could be a colossal bust, but only in the context of free agency - who goes, who comes - the rookie salary cap and all that.

One thing we know is that the Pats will bring in 5-6 free agents to fill perceived needs. Who those guys are is the great unknown until the damn CBA is cleared up. Add 5-6 veterans to this draft and then let's see them on the field. Personally I love the two young running backs. This pattern of bringing in old guys with lots of yards on them was frustrating.

The Law Firm, Woodhead and these two guys in particular is a nifty group. Faulk should retire - his presence reminds us of 4th and 2. Then he can drift away and smoke his bonage out of the limelight.

The one thing we know is that the Kraft/BB brain trust took a lot of risks in this draft because they could. A 14-2 team with youth and depth all over the place, a young defense that came together beautifully as the 2010 season wore on, and a truckload of picks in this draft to play with. The Pats are the best team in the division right now and re-stocked the draft for 2012 when the rules of the game will be at least be clear.

This CBA nonsense by the owners is the variable that must get removed and then you can quibble your brains out. You are like two blind guys trying to figure out what an elephant is.