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So is the new found offensive balance (compared to 2007)...

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by betterthanthealternative, Oct 2, 2009.

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  1. betterthanthealternative

    betterthanthealternative Rookie

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    a. permanent, because BB is running the offense rather than Josh?
    b. temporary, until Brady demonstrates he's fully back in form?
  2. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Too early to tell.

    We had better offensive balance in 2008 than in 2007, mainly because we used the running game more to put less pressure on Matt Cassel. Because we were successful doing this last year, I'm reasonably confident that we have the personnel to have offensive balance this year. The question is whether we are willing to commit to it. I hope so.

    With that aside, I don't expect us to be able to run much against Baltimore this week, so don't be surprised to see less balance.
  3. nashvillepatsfan

    nashvillepatsfan Rookie

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    Agreed. We certainly have the personnel to be more balanced, and i'd like to see them use it. There's nothing wrong with a little clock killing running attack. ;) Not to mention, it will keep our defense fresh for when we get to the SB :D

    But, like you said, this week wont be very balanced
  4. JoeShmoe

    JoeShmoe Rookie

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    Yeah, but I think you have to try - else we'll just see Baltimore did what he Jets did in terms of pass blitzing. Hopefully Welker is back and Galloway starts to do a bit better as well esp. if Moss' back is still bad
  5. PatsfanGlo

    PatsfanGlo Rookie

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    As much as I enjoyed Pats light up the opponents, I would much prefer if the offense was balanced. 2007 was one of those rare season where we didn't have crucial injuries and with Welker and Moss already bit dinged up, and with Taylor, Morris, Maroney, BJEG, Faulk, it would make sense to run little more. I would love to see more play-action pass bombs. That would help Galloway, no?
  6. SaCaCh

    SaCaCh Rookie

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    #87 Jersey

    People seem to forget 2007. Look at the balance in the first three games and then look after the RB injuries we had for the next 10-12 weeks. We were forced to go into the air in that season.
  7. DNR

    DNR Rookie

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    I'm thinking its gonna remain a passing offense as long as Brady, Moss and Welker are on this team. They would be crazy not to favor it.

    But I would like to see them continue to run more, depending on the strengths/weaknesses of the opponent. Seeing them get back to a more balanced attack last weekend was great.
  8. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    What we do remember from 2009 can be boiled down to "you don't mess w/success." I.e., 18 straight games, first half of the season blowing out opponents.

    What we do not remember it that it became progressively harder to just play pitch n catch.

    The moral of that story in part was that we could not gut out that one vitally important win... and that in retrospect we came closer more often to other losses later in the season as weather became a factor and defenses adjusted.

    To your point: don't compare 09 to 07, compare it to 08. I'd put Brady at about where Cassel got to be a few games into the season, at the present. He's not back, they know he's not back, other teams know he's not back. But everybody knows he COULD get the rust off any given week, if it "just clicks".

    So to answer the question, I believe that you are obliquely correct, that BB is installing the offense he prefers. That means the offense most likely to win in any given game, or succeed in any given situation. That's really his hallmark, not any particular run/pass mix. He's in New England and he knows it, defensive pedigree be damned. He'll never fool himself into thinking that 3 yards and a cloud of dust is the reality of today's NFL.

    I'm thinking that Comparatively Unfragile Fred gives us reliability in the backfield that's been missing far too often and that's a valuable tool. Maroney's got this infuriating habit of coming out w/5 yards per carry, but kicking you in the nuts and getting you 1 or 2 when you need him to get you 3. (Oh yeah and of course he's made of glass.) He plays a role but I think what we're seeing is he's been consigned to a role, not to an "every down" capability, ever.

    I'm wrong about a bunch of stuff and this may fall into that category... but I think given all the tools, BB will still not have very similar game plans game over game, based on opponents. Settle into an idea of those tendencies one direction or the other and he'll look for what you're trying to beat him with. My thought is he's the opposite of the coach that says "we'll do what we do best and dare them to stop us." He might say "UNTIL they stop us," as he did in 07, but that "until" did begin to happen later in the season, and finally happened in the SB.

    With the right QB (sarcasm intended here, I mean w/a fully "back" Brady,) there'll be more of an air game.

    PFnV
  9. Reckedtrek

    Reckedtrek Rookie

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    C. based on the game plan for the team they play that week X 16.

    By the end of the season, I'd guess it to be about 60% pass/ 40% run. So not perfectly balanced, but more so than 2007.
  10. patsfaninpittsburgh

    patsfaninpittsburgh Banned

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    Except......

    A review of 2007 stats shows they were 58% pass/ 42% rush.

    Passing was #1 in every category

    Rushing went from #13th in yards, #13 in average; to the most interesting stat.....

    The Pats were third in rushing first downs. This infers many short yardage rushes to get first downs. "Situational football" like this will dampen yards and especially yards per attempt.

    My best guess is passing and rushing will be determined specifically to the opponent. Who exactly preached "balance" in Minnesota in 2006 or the game against the Jets at home in 2007?

    Don't be suprised to see tons of rushing against Indy and an aerial circus against New Orleans.
  11. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    It's really neither. BB isn't running the offense any moreso than he was in 2005 when Josh was the unnamed OC or in 2001 when Charlie found himself OC'ing a 6th round draft pick QB in week 3. The gameplan changes every week based on matchups and personnel availability and it adjusts based on what the defense is giving and how well or not the offense is executing.

    The running game wasn't clicking in weeks 1 and 2. Part of that was matchup and part was lack of execution - and in week 2 a good deal of it was situational with multiple drive killing penalties. Bill pointed out on Monday that the OL did a much better job against Atlanta coming off the ball and opening holes for the RB than they had in weeks 1 and 2. How much of that was matchup vs. improved overall performance remains to be seen. The passing game wasn't clicking either but they had no choice but to lean on Tom in week 1 since you can't run your way out of an 11 point deficit with 5 minutes remaining in a game. Ditto in the JETS game when you can't run your way out of penalty induced long yardage on 3 crucial drives, for openers, let alone when your running game already failed to move the chains twice in 3rd and short situations...

    This is a pass first or pass to run offense and it will remain that as long as it has a HOF QB at the helm. The rust issue is overstated although the entire unit continues to execute erratically due moreso to protection and timing issues with unfamiliar receivers. Hopefully most of those will work themselves out and fewer matchups going forward will challenge the OL as much either because they can't bring the requisite pressure consistently or the coaching staff has figured out a scheme to limit it's effectiveness. Sunday should provide a good test of whether they are gaining ground on the latter.
  12. Pats726

    Pats726 Rookie

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    I think C is the answer....an dit should be that way...no reason to plan to run and run against a D that stops the run...and one should not keep passing against a tough D against the pass...this week definitely more passing than running...how many games have the Ravens not allowed a 100 yard runner?? They will run some, to keep those safeties from moving up in the box...but more to set up passes than running like last week.
    And it's never really 6-/40 over a season...more like 55/45 or closer to 50/50...
  13. Reckedtrek

    Reckedtrek Rookie

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    I often forget that they did in fact run a bit in 2007! :D So in that case... I'll amend my response to:
    C. based on the game plan for the team they play that week X 16.
  14. wdkantro2

    wdkantro2 Rookie

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    I know it's because they are dominating TOP and are running a ton of plays, but Brady has still thrown the ball more than any other QB in football; I'd hardly call that conservative or balanced. In 225 offensive plays, they have thrown the ball 142 times, which is 63%. Sure, they were almost 50-50 against Atlanta (42 out of 81, although I think it's really 79 because of 2 kneel downs), but Atlanta has consistently been bad against the run, had just lost their starting DT and it was raining. If you can't be balanced under those conditions, you'll never be balanced.
    I think it totally depends on the matchups, but I believe this team would rather throw than run.
  15. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    We're asking whether we are now a balanced offense now that Brady passed ONLY 42 times?

    This is a passing team.

    We call ourselves a balanced team when we can kill some clock and we can actually consider running (other than a draw) on 3rd and 2. That is NOT a balanced team. That is a passing team that can run a bit when needed.

    Hopefully, the team is able to run when needed as a permanent part of situational football and depending on the opposition and its game plan.

    That being said, this week is not really a test. BALT's opponents have averaged under 100 yards a game running for 5 years or so. I don't expect that to change with our new-found balanced offense.
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2009
  16. TruthSeeker

    TruthSeeker PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I'm expecting very little balance on Sunday.

    Think Patriots @ Vikings a few years back when the Vikings were killers against the run but had one of the weakest secondaries in the NFL. The Patriots picked them apart with passes and practically every run (of which there were few) was stuffed. The Patriots won handily. Other teams followed the Patriots offensive model and the Vikings went from hyped Super Bowl contender to a middle of the pack team.

    Now, I don't know if the Patriots can win handily because the Ravens offense is coming alive and Brady has clearly not returned to '07 form. But I fully expect the game plan to be the same as it was then. The Ravens are very weak at the corners and, apart from the phenomenal Ed Reed, are ripe for the picking through the air (if Brady gets half-decent protection). The blueprint is there; the Patriots just need to follow it.

    Who knows; balance may return next week. :D
  17. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Very nice comparison. I remember that Minnesota game - it was supposed to be a big showdown, and TB destroyed them.
  18. BradyManny

    BradyManny Rookie

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    Josh ran this balanced offense with McDaniels last year.

    I think a lot of people forget how balanced our offense was in 2007 a) when we had Sammy Morris b) when Maroney was on a roll at the end of the year.

    This offense is better and harder to stop when its balanced, no doubt.
  19. BradyManny

    BradyManny Rookie

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    The blueprint we used to beat Minnesota (don't bother w the run, spread them out, pick them apart) recently failed against the NYJ. We'll see if the coaching staff thought it was a matter of execution or gameplanning, b/c if its the former, I expect we'll see that gameplan again this week against a team that is so stout against the run in Baltimore.

    On NFL Network, they were breaking down the Ravens D, and Brian Baldinger was basically calling out Ed Reed for gambling and the reason the Chargers threw all over them (he backed it up w some tape). The Ravens CBs aren't super, that's their one potential weakness, Reed maybe is trying to make up for it, and we should exploit it.

    The only team who has beaten Brady with not-so-amazing corners in the last few years is the Giants in the SB, and they did so by creating a pass rush without blitzing. The Jets beat us by having great corners and blitzing.
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2009
  20. klinefan

    klinefan Banned

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    I think BB could very easily run the offense and that is why it looked better against Atlanta.

    McDaniels used to have this play where Maroney would be single back. EVERY time he would run up the middle. That's why he'd dance and get -2 yards, becuase the MLB would always know it's Maroney up the middle. It had zero imagination, complete predictability.

    How did Ernie Adams not see this? WTF? Whatever, BB is in charge now and is smart enough to change it up. Have maroney catch some passes, play action, whatever.
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