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Size DOES matter...

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by patfanken, Mar 11, 2009.

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  1. patfanken

    patfanken Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    ....thank god it doesn't matter in bed (;) ), but it DOES matter in the NFL secondary in 2009 . For years the Pats have gone with smaller quicker secondary people. and for the last few years at least, I have decried the fact that we rarely had a single DB combination that had a DB over 5'10 and 200 lbs. Even Rodney, who was over 200, was still only 5'10. And we haven't had a competent DB over 6' tall since OTIS, and that goes back a ways.

    FINALLY, it looks like BB is making the change that reflects the drastic physical changes in WRs since around 2005. With the addition of Springer and Boddin, the Pats have added TWO 6', 200+ln CBs to their stable of 5'10 waterbugs. We are now HALF done in the transformation of our secondary to reflect the reality of the NFL these days

    Boddin was a particularly good signing. High upside with very little risk. In fact I was very impressed with the fact that he was willing to take less than a million to showcase his skills in a system that SHOULD show them well. Coaching DOES matter in the NFL, just ask Matt Cassel.

    Now we have to do 2 more things before opening day. We have to sign Jason Taylor and then find some size at S in either the draft or in FA. I don't think Rodney will be back.

    BTW- that brings to mind a question. Even though Rodney was only here for 6 years, would you consider him someone who should be a Patriots HOFer?
     
  2. signbabybrady

    signbabybrady Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    Re: Size DOES matter.....

    Rodney should be both a NFL and Patriot Hall of Famer
     
  3. ctpatsfan77

    ctpatsfan77 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: Size DOES matter.....

    As JSn noted, it's $2.25M (but at least it still knocks out a $385K salary).

    And who is going to get released to be able to afford Mr. Taylor?
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2009
  4. rsd

    rsd On the Game Day Roster

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    Re: Size DOES matter.....

    Ken,

    Always love your musings, but I have to disagree with you and all those who continue to harp on the size of the secondary.

    Name me one "big" DB that the Patriots had when they won the superbowls. Law, Samuel, O-T-I-S, Gay, Hobbs, etc etc were never considered "big".

    Not that a "big" db is a bad thing, but its not a matter of size but a matter of TALENT.

    When you have Deltha O'Neil in your secondary and a bunch of JAGs at safety then you are in trouble. Obviously injuries have contributed to this issue in the past couple of years, but the Patriots also made some decisions that exacerbated the problem.
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2009
  5. mojocaster.com

    mojocaster.com Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    Re: Size DOES matter.....

    I'm pretty sure the guy's name is Bodden :)
     
  6. N.Eman

    N.Eman Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    Re: Size DOES matter.....

    I'd consider him Pats HOFer, he has had a quite a few plays in the Playoffs that have turned the game around for us. Solid player, of course age matters in NFL and now sadly he's in the situation that he is in. Sure will miss him.
     
  7. NEGoldenAge

    NEGoldenAge Banned

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    Re: Size DOES matter.....

    Is that what she tells you? What a nice lass. Take it from a guy with Irish heritage with a girl who's not afraid to speak her mind. Size does matter. There is an olde Irish saying: If you can't hit the bottom of the well, bang the f--- out of the side.
     
  8. alvinnf

    alvinnf In the Starting Line-Up

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    Re: Size DOES matter.....

    Just get married and you wont have to worry about it...
     
  9. NEGoldenAge

    NEGoldenAge Banned

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    Re: Size DOES matter.....

    Excellent point ;)
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2009
  10. Lloyd_Christmas

    Lloyd_Christmas I can delete my own crap! PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: Size DOES matter.....

    Every year I year people over-hype big WRs and big CBs.

    We have had many debates in past threads about this. As I recall, at the time, we determined that there were just as many successful WRs under 6' as there were successful WRs over 6'.

    While I don't discount the advantage of big and tall, I question the amount of importance some put on its overall impact when figured in with speed, talent, intelligence, etc.

    For every pass that sails over a short DB's fingertips into a tall WR's hands, there is a big DB getting burned for a long reception because his jam at the line didn't work as well as he'd hoped for, or there is a DB getting juked out of his drawers by a quick little WR like Welker that can cut on a dime.

    In short (sorrry, bad pun), it's not all about size, although I agree that it does matter.
     
  11. robertweathers

    robertweathers Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    Re: Size DOES matter.....

    I thought Rodney is 6'1" 220? Either way you bring up a good points. May want to clean up your post. Pats signed Springs- not Springer. I don't think Jerry would make it out of camp ;-).
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2009
  12. patfanken

    patfanken Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Re: Size DOES matter.....

    What's the old WEEI saying "you're maaaakkkiinng my point" :D Yes those smaller secondaries (with the exception of OTIS) were among the Pats most successfull, but they were also the secondaries that were PRE 2005-6, which is about when we started seeing the effects of almost EVERY team lining up 6'2+ WRs on a regular basis. Prior to that Randy Moss and TO were the EXCEPTIONS rather than the rule. NOW they are the rule, and defenses have to respond.
     
  13. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: Size DOES matter.....

    Team went 18-1 with a short secondary....
     
  14. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: Size DOES matter.....

    You should have just said CB. Since you said DB, then you get to include Safeties. And Harrison is 6'1. Milloy is 6'0 . Ty Law is 5'11. Tebuckey Jones is 6'2. Otis Smith was 5'11. Randall Gay is also 5'11. 5'11 is just about the norm for CBs.

    What sort of decisions did the Patriots make that exacerbated the situation?
     
  15. Sicilian

    Sicilian Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Re: Size DOES matter.....

    I think it's more like that BB values speed, quickness, and instincts all ahead of size. It's not that he didn't want big CBs, it was just extremely rare to find CBs that have those other things AND size. Maybe he sees that in Bodden and Springs.

    It's kind of like the drafting LBs thing. BB was never actively thinking, "I'm not going to draft a LB higher than 5th round." He just never saw a difference maker (in his mind anyway) available at the spots he was picking. Mayo was a special talent.
     
  16. satz

    satz 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    Re: Size DOES matter.....

    If you look at the tall CB in he league they tend to be injury prone. as a cb you are reading a WR route and cutting,pivoting and turning which involves a tremendous amout of weight being put on your ankle and legs.

    hence bigger cb are too injury prone . in a show it was said when a RB at 200 lb pivots or cuts he put 700 lbs of weight on this ankle and hence they do not last. the thing is a cb plays more snaps than a RB and cuts more than a Rb on a play.
     
  17. Dagg

    Dagg Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    Re: Size DOES matter.....


    When your offense score 50 pts a game it doesnt matter how lousy and short your secondary is....
     
  18. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: Size DOES matter.....

    And the year before? What's the reason that the year before, when the team went 12-4 and lost in the AFCCG, doesn't count?
     
  19. NEGoldenAge

    NEGoldenAge Banned

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    Re: Size DOES matter.....

    And a record setting offense.
     
  20. VJCPatriot

    VJCPatriot Pro Bowl Player

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    Re: Size DOES matter.....

    Then how do you explain all those 6' + receivers like Randy Moss not getting injured all the time. The theory has to cut both ways to make sense. I don't really buy it. I'd like to see some empirical evidence to support the claim.
     
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