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Situational Head Scratchers: Poor Clock Management

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by nabwong, Nov 19, 2012.

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  1. nabwong

    nabwong PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    So we had the ball just before half time. I think it was 2nd & 7. The clock was running down 2:30-ish. I remembered we could have run it down to the 2 minute warning. The colts had 3 timeouts left. Instead, we ran a play and it was incomplete, stopping the clock before the 2 min warning. So fast forward, the colts get the ball back with 1:55+ and 3 time outs.

    My question is this:

    Why not run the clock down to 2 min warning and we have 2nd and 3rd downs to potentially run the clock down to 1 min or slightly less? Or if the colts wanted more time, they would have been forced to burn some timeouts. I know the colts didn't score but we could have reduced the possibility even further. This comes after last week's quick snap against buffalo.

    Am I off base?
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2012
  2. SacPete1

    SacPete1 Rookie

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    I was thinking the same thing but since they weren't showing the playclock, I figured it was going to run out before the 2 minute warning.
  3. coolguy

    coolguy Banned

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    The patriots simply have more confidence getting first downs through the air than they do running it.
  4. nabwong

    nabwong PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    It's not about getting the first down. It's about why we did not let the clock go to the 2 min warning. Unless I am wrong about the play clock.
  5. The Gr8est

    The Gr8est Rookie

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    Well considering the defensive and special teams scores, the offense had spent a lot of time on the sidelines and needed the work and BB was trying to preserve clock.

    Yeah, that's the ticket.

    :rolleyes:
  6. Joker

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    I was in the stands and not looking at the clock...but I knew it was winding down...during halftime shooting the shiz with other fans is when I found out...immediately thought of the exact same ploy last week...I guess McD just doesn't care enough
  7. tombonneau

    tombonneau Rookie

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    I was thinking same thing but swear I saw the play clock and there was too much of a discrepancy to run it down.
  8. DaBruinz

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    I went and looked at the play-by-play and they should have had enough time since the play clock should have been reset to 40 seconds (not 25) since the 1st down play occurred at (2:41) remaining and took more than 1 second off the clock.. So, yes, they should have let the clock continue to run since it looked like the Colts weren't going to use their timeouts on that side of the 2 minute warning.

    I'll be honest. I think that sometimes Brady just gets caught up in the moment and forgets about the clock management. Either that, or it's McDaniels. Either way, it's not a good thing.
  9. VrabelJr

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    This hurts to say but our defense has been more situationally aware this year than the offense has at times. Especially in the two minute areas. We used to be known as that team whose offense was going to kill you in the two minute area but that hasn't been as apparent this year.
  10. Gumby

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    McD is setting everybody up.

    The entire season long he is going to run this HAND0FF to RIDLEY quick snap on the goal line until everyone sees it coming a mile away. Then in the playoffs he is going to do the play action and TB will throw it to Gronk.
    .....


    oh wait, :bricks: ([please dont beat me up for blackhumor, sometimes if you dont laugh you will cry] god, I hope he heals up quick at least for first playoff game)


    or else McC will just keep on having TB hand off to ridley over and over again using these single back formation, quick snap no huddle plays. :bricks::bricks:
  11. Gumby

    Gumby Rookie

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    McD is setting everybody up.

    The entire season long he is going to run this HAND0FF to RIDLEY quick snap on the goal line until everyone sees it coming a mile away. Then in the playoffs he is going to do the play action and TB will throw it to Gronk.
    .....


    oh wait, :bricks: ([please dont beat me up for blackhumor, sometimes if you dont laugh you will cry] god, I hope he heals up quick at least for first playoff game)


    or else McD will just keep on having TB hand off to ridley over and over again using these single back formation, quick snap no huddle plays. Because SOME DAY IT IS GOING TO WORK. :bricks::bricks:
  12. abdul7

    abdul7 Rookie

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    You know what ? I am going to show this thread to my son later,,becoz i screamed out when they Threw on 2nd and goal with 2m. 4secs i think on the clock,,leaving 3rd down with 2m.2secs. When my son asked me why i hated the call,,i explained they should have let the clock run down to the 2m warning,,,or call a run play on second down. After kicking the FG ,,we did leave them enough time to go down and get something,,,so yes i agree with you.
  13. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Do not want to sound facetious, but is this a really big complaint??

    Sounds somewhat "Borgesesque".....
  14. smg93

    smg93 Rookie

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    I don't think its "Borgesesque" at all. This is a team that prides itself in situational football. It's always been said that one should play complimentary football. Had the offense been able to not run a play till the two minute warning or at the very least ran the ball it would have made the defense's job easier because time would have been their ally.

    For a team that prides itself on smart plays, this one should definitely be reviewed. With that said, I agree with another poster who believes that TB is so intense sometimes or is so in the flow that he forgets these things. All in all, I would rather they used the clock more wisely on this play but I still love TB no matter what. :D
  15. 1960Pats

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    And for those who want to lay this at the feet of McDaniels or say it's no big deal, that same clock mismanagement was behind the 4th and 2 fiasco at Indy a few years ago. Had the Pats run it on either 3rd and 1 or 4th and 1, the clock would have gone below the 2 minute mark and a replay would have been automatic. Instead the Pats wasted a TO on 3rd and couldn't ask for a replay on 4th.

    I also noticed the same stupidity yesterday when they had a three score lead at the 12 minute mark and went pass happy. When they did run the ball Vereen went OOB. No way Kevin Faulk taught any of the RBs that move. Those are the kind of things that has led to some rallies by the opposing teams.
  16. BSR

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    No because it gave Indy too much time. I rarely have a problem with their end of half management but this one was a head scratcher.

    It started at about the 3 and a half minute mark. They were at about the Indy 29. They weren't in the no huddle but weren't using all of the clock. They could have easily left less than a minute on the clock if they wanted. It was really strange.
  17. PatsWickedPissah

    PatsWickedPissah PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    It seems to be a new thing this year so I'm attributing it mostly to Josh who makes the pass vs run calls. Hard to rationalize this un-Patslike behavior since BB is supposed to be famous for analyzing everything post game, including coaching decisions. You'd think that there'd be emphasis on clock management.

    It's like we've morphed into an alternative Herm Edwards universe. :)
  18. nabwong

    nabwong PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Up to that point, I think the colts had twice or more the offensive time. We could have helped our D a little bit more as well as reduce the risk of a fight back. It would also have been a bigger psychological scar had we eliminate their "hope".

    I sent this to mike Reiss. Will be interested to see what he will say.
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2012
  19. PatsFaninAZ

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    It was bad situational football. There's really no other way to put it. The only way that it's defensible is if you imagine that, since the Patriots had time outs, their plan was to score as fast as they could to get the ball back after stopping the Colts 3 and out. Given our defense, that would have been stupid strategy. But at least it would have been a strategy.

    The answer to the question whether they needed to run a play is definitely no. There was an 8 second difference between the play clock and the 2:00 warning. I posted about it live in the gameday thread.

    The only rational basis for running the play on the plus side of the 2:00 warning, other than the one above, is if they liked the defensive grouping on the field and didn't want to give the Colts a free time out to sub. But barring that, it was terrible clock management.

    It never ceases to amaze me how bad teams are at clock management. They just don't understand the nuances. Perhaps the saving grace yesterday was that the Colts screwed it up even worse when they got the ball back.

    But perhaps the worst clock decision of the day yesterday had to be the Steelers. Ravens had just run a play on second down and the clock was winding down to 2:00. Tomlin called a time out -- his last -- at 2:04. The announcers were actually praising the call -- get the time out in before the 2:00 warning. It is an absolutely idiotic call. If there is 2:10 or more left, perhaps, but even then it's stupid.

    Why? Well you get virtually nothing out of it. If you let the clock tick down to the 2:00 warning, instead of stopping it at 2:04, you can just use your last time out after the Ravens run their next play. The only difference in that circumstance is that you have about 1:55 instead of 2:00 on the clock. Either way if they get the first down, the game is over.

    So, what is the downside of what Tomlin did? Well, here's the big one -- you give the Ravens a free chance to throw a pass. There is no downside now to a pass play on third down, because the clock is going to stop either way. If, instead, you let the clock run to 2:00 and keep your time out, then you virtually force the Ravens to run, so they make you use that last time out. And, if they do pass, and it's incomplete, you have saved a time out instead of using it just for a whopping 4 seconds.

    The other down side is exactly the one that played out. The Ravens ran a play. The defense was offside. It wasn't enough for a first down, but since the play ran 4 seconds off the clock and replayed the down, the Ravens got to run on third down and use up 40 seconds. Just absolutely idiotic time management.

    Here's another potential downside. Suppose, on the third down play, the Steelers commit a defensive penalty that leads to an automatic first down. If you call the time out before the 2:00 warning, the game is now over. You have the 2:00 warning, and the Ravens kneel on the ball 3 times. But if you wait for the 2:00 warning, now you still have a chance. With a time out left, you can get the ball back with 30 seconds left, even with the automatic first down. Just a really terrible terrible call, that people actually think is the smart call.

    Given how much parity there is in the NFL, I would think a team could justify paying a coach to do nothing other than be aware of clock situational play. It really used to be a Patriots strength, and they are still better than most of the league, but this year they have shown some poor clock decisions -- the Jets game was particularly bad.
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2012
  20. nabwong

    nabwong PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I thought someone like Ernie would be all over clock management. But then again, I have no idea what he does. lol.

    I think one reason why clock management has been so bad is because of lack of practice maybe. We almost have the same core personnel.
  21. captain stone

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    Nothing to add; just wanted to bump this QFT, because I am in complete agreement about the stupidity
    of calling time-outs mere seconds before the 2-min warning, yet I see this happening all the dam time.
  22. Dingleberry

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    Count me among those of you who were pisssed about yet another example of poor clock management by the offense.

    From my couch, half in the bag, while scratching my balls, I immediately looked at the play clock and saw they could run it to the 2 minute warning. And yet they end up running two plays before the warning!

    With this D, it was a no-brainer. Hell, with ANY D, it is a no brainer. Let it go to the warning. Play 2nd down and 3rd down after the warning. Whether you get a TD or FG, the opposing offense has little chance to score before the half.

    I get that the offense likes to hurry up to keep the opposing D off balance, but sometimes common sense (and basic football knowledge) need to be used.
  23. fnordcircle

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    I disagree with everyone in this thread.

    It's 2nd and 7. You've got to get a first down. It is an obvious running down. So let's say you run and get anything less than 7 yards. Now you can run the clock down and are then put into an obvious passing situation @ the 2 minute mark.

    Brady drops back and throws and it's an incomplete now you're punting with 1:50 on the clock and you've gotten here thanks to being predictable two plays in a row.

    That's why I thought it was good play calling - because they risk 30 seconds on the clock, roughly, but they improved their chances of getting a first down by not being predictable.
  24. PATSYLICIOUS

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    They made similar mistakes last year @ Buffalo right before half and in the Giants regular season game right before their game winning drive. Sometimes I'd wish in these moments (having the ball, under 4 minutes left in the game/half) we'd use the clock to our advantage and leave as little time for the other offense as possible. Give how bad our defense has been, it seems way more logical. It doesn't mean you need to get super conservative, just by running one play or making a short pass and staying in bounds you can take the full 40 seconds off the clock, it's a huge difference in those situations. For whatever reason we never seem to think like that and it usually bites us in the rear when our defense takes the field and there's way too much time for the other team to not capitalize. I always thought that was the whole point of deferring when winning the coin toss, the possibility of having the extra possession.

    The clock management/situational awareness all around has been iffy this year - end of Buff game, right before halftime @ Sea, end of AZ game, and the one mentioned in this thread.
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2012
  25. cstjohn17

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    Patriots clock management has been highly questionable this year, I know they think that it is time for 6 gun justice and every chance should be taken come hell or high water but a simple analysis of the 4th quarter offense execution (or lack there of ) would lead to more rational and conservative play calling.

    Like every unit, there is room for improvement with the coaching. Still time to fine tune things.
  26. Dingleberry

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    ??????

    They were already in close FG range. Barring a turnover, points were a given. Obvious run? They didn't have to run a play at all! Call a pass or run after the warning on 2nd and 7.

    There was enough time on the play clock after the 1st down play to run it down to the warning without calling another play.
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2012
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