Welcome to PatsFans.com

Situational Coaching for Ochocinco?

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by neuronet, Nov 1, 2011.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. neuronet

    neuronet Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2008
    Messages:
    2,182
    Likes Received:
    4
    Ratings:
    +6 / 0 / -0

    #87 Jersey

    BB is big into situational football.

    I wonder if he should apply this philosophy with his coaching/playbook when it comes to Ochocinco. Obviously, the guy isn't working out, has been a non-factor in our games this year. Why not tweak the system for Ochocinco?

    Chad is a great receiver, and BB is squandering his talent. Ask Chad what was so different in Cincinatti so that he was incredibly successful there, and figure out how they can adapt their system to bring out his talent.

    Just throwing it out there...
  2. Elijah T.

    Elijah T. Rookie

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2011
    Messages:
    323
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 1 / -0

    #12 Jersey

    Why not have Ocho and Price work on three or four routes with Brady. The routes our other receivers have trouble with (post, hook/curl-in, and deep comeback)...

    Price has the size and legs for it, Ocho made a living with these routes.. Why not master the timing on these routes and dictate the coverage with Price and Ocho?

    A go or '9' route every once in a while would be good too...Even with Branch and Welker, completion or not, just to show on film you'll run it.

    Pats have only run the go/deep post route with Slater a few times...I think the only times he's been on the field.

    I'm surprised that they haven't done SOMETHING with Ocho.... Give him a box of crayons, something.

    He isn't dead on his feet...Ocho still has legs.
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2011
  3. LasVegasPatsFan

    LasVegasPatsFan Rookie

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2006
    Messages:
    364
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    TweaK? Ocho would understand the system better if it were TWEETED instead.
  4. andrewgarrr

    andrewgarrr Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2010
    Messages:
    2,149
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    I'd be all for "tweaking" the system for Andre Johnson, Calvin Johnson, or Larry Fitzgerald.

    At this point in his career, Chad doesn't deserve that level of respect. He needs to fit into what the Patriots are doing, not the other way around.
  5. neuronet

    neuronet Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2008
    Messages:
    2,182
    Likes Received:
    4
    Ratings:
    +6 / 0 / -0

    #87 Jersey

    Exactly along the lines I was imagining. Ocho is a great receiver, he put himself out there to come to NE, really has humbled himself. He deserves better.
  6. Lurks_All_Day

    Lurks_All_Day Rookie

    Joined:
    May 13, 2007
    Messages:
    562
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    No Jersey Selected

    Well, how's that train of thought working out so far?

    What's wrong with designing a play or three that works to a player's strengths?
    He's still got the mental, if not the physical. Even a slow receiver can beat good coverage when the play is designed for it.
  7. alvinnf

    alvinnf Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2008
    Messages:
    3,298
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0

    Verbage...... Numbers not words. Sight adjustment and route trees. Understanding spacial relationships to other players........
  8. TheSolderKing

    TheSolderKing Rookie

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2011
    Messages:
    2,339
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    I don't think Ocho has the Brain for understnding our scheme... The Brandon Tate Redux


    I think Ocho will get better in time... unlike Tate.
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2011
  9. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    22,296
    Likes Received:
    108
    Ratings:
    +355 / 15 / -13

    He is on the end of the bench, because he has earned that role. Why would we work on getting him involved instead of keeping the players who are more deserving of being on the field involved?
  10. neuronet

    neuronet Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2008
    Messages:
    2,182
    Likes Received:
    4
    Ratings:
    +6 / 0 / -0

    #87 Jersey

    Because it will help the team. Defenses can play us tight because so few routes aim for more than 15 yards down the field. This greatly eases our opponent's job, no? It helps them against the run, too.
  11. Patspsycho

    Patspsycho Rookie

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2009
    Messages:
    9,930
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    To clarify- the Bengals system is numbers (from the West Coast philosophy), and the Patriots are the modified Erhart-Perkins (names) and Bengals do not do sight (coverage) adjustments while New England practically does that every snap.

    In short, Ocho is very used to a system where his job was done once he stepped out of the huddle. He knew where he was going to go.

    But here, his job isn't done until after the snap and he reads the coverage and my bet is he's having the majority of his difficulty adjusting in the tube before he gets to the stem of his route.
  12. Patriot_in_NY

    Patriot_in_NY Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2007
    Messages:
    8,525
    Likes Received:
    12
    Ratings:
    +13 / 0 / -0

    Because its about winning games........ I think at this point the best thing to do is to give Ocho 2-3 routes he knows how to run and let him run them for the limited snaps he's in there. Keep is simple and TB can check him down quick enough to see if it's gonna work or not.

    Some production is better then nothing.
  13. Fencer

    Fencer Rookie

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2006
    Messages:
    7,661
    Likes Received:
    16
    Ratings:
    +34 / 0 / -13

    Based on his track record and presumed work ethic, I have trouble believing the main problem is something other than sight adjustments.

    But I can't think of a way to coach out of that in the Pats' system, unless the receiver has Moss-style athleticism and can usefully be sent on the same route all game.
  14. RayClay

    RayClay On the Roster

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2005
    Messages:
    18,086
    Likes Received:
    191
    Ratings:
    +453 / 5 / -6

    #75 Jersey

    But the OC is talking about working Price in. If i were Ocho, I'd be bribing the backup QBs to work overtime with him. Looks like Donald Hayes part two...

    lol to think we should change our whole offense for him.
  15. 85Ocho85

    85Ocho85 Rookie

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2011
    Messages:
    65
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    A good coach,good,OC and a good QB would have already done that. But stale predictable afraid of even a minor unknown will not. Some teams make adjustments ,others use what has always worked for them even when its obvious and predictable. Patriots are predictable and boring. But since it works its hard to argue, only problem is teams have figured it out.

    Not saying BB isnt a good coach, obviously he is one of the best, but at this point nothing new from the Pats. You go to a pats game, watch it, play it you already know the offense and wont see anything different even when needed.
  16. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2005
    Messages:
    19,949
    Likes Received:
    29
    Ratings:
    +29 / 0 / -0

    Yeah, it's not like stale and predictable Belichick would ever switch from his bread and butter 3-4 base to a 4-3 base on the fly to suit his personnel or anything...

    Chad is just one guy, and at this stage just a guy as WR's go. They've already pared down the playbook for him. That's why he sees the field so infrequently. They aren't going to pare it down for Brady or the other guys who can execute sight adjustments. People keep blathering about getting one guy going deep as if we didn't still end up on the short end of the stick in the playoffs when we had just one guy going deep...and a lot more gifted one at that. The problem starts and ends in the trenches when we can't keep the pass rush off Tom long enough for guys to beat coverage and we simultaneously can't open holes for the runners with enough consistency to be productive enough to run opponents out of their coverage and pass rushing schemes. The Steelers took a page out of Bill's book and a Dick LeBeau defense undermanned due to injury opted to not do what they do as a counter to what we do, and we were not prepared to adjust to that situation.

    The issues are similar on defense. It's not lack of talent, it's that lacking elite talent you have to execute consistently and this team isn't doing that. Lousy tackling (which Bill feared pre game based on the week's practice) and inexperienced guys second guessing their responsibilities based on what they thought they saw formation wise is what killed us all day long against the Steelers.

    Elite talent will often find a way or make a play or two to counter overall lack of execution. Brady was winding up to but he ran out of time because of coaching decisions and persistent failure to execute situationally including on ST and because no one elite or even instinctive player stepped up on defense to make an impact play.

    People here scoff at the idea Bill can fix that, only even Felger realizes it can be fixed sufficiently to get this team where everyone seems to need it to go. Bill just needs to get through to these guys the age old messages of do your job and play with consistency and be prepared to bring your best effort every week because this team isn't talented enough to win consistently unless they play consistently.

    And since it doesn't appear he can get through to some of the bridge the gap veteran leadership and talent he amassed this offseason who aren't bringing it consistently either because they can't or won't, he should just cut the dead wood that is a drag on the roster and a lousy example to the young players he needs to instill drive and will to win into. Haynesworth, Ellis, Ocho - should all be joining Bodden on the waiver wire. Give the playing time to guys who may want it more and may ultimately make more of the opportunity.

    And quit bringing in problematic stiffs. This isn't redemption central. Get over missing out on your binky safety just because he was pegged as a potentially flawed character by remembering that you still won three rings and nearly won a fourth without him while the team that took the risk hasn't won a damn thing in his individually illustrious career... You won those Lombardi's by amassing a handful of high character elite talents and surrounding them with a solid core of lesser talented but high character effort guys who were consistently driven to win.

    Wilfork will cry a little, that's his only flaw and who he is. He'll get over it. Somewhere deep down inside he knows what he needs on the field with him, and he knows that he doesn't need guys out there who are not willing or able to give him what he gives them consistently. As his QB also knows all too well... Doesn't matter if you like them personally or they appear to try hard in practice or they have in the past displayed skill that makes your jaw drop. If they can't or won't bring it in the here and now they are just a drag on the entire effort...

    And while your at it extend Welker and Branch to reinforce the message that becoming guys who bring it every week and contest every yard is the goal they should all be persuing irrespective of perceived talent. And you might want to have a word with Logan about manning up and playing like an all pro and not an emotional cowboy for 16 weeks now that he's got all Bob's $$$. Screaming at opponents post snap and showing them fear pre snap doesn't set a very constructive tone for your linemates. Don't get mad, play angry and execute more consistently and get even...
  17. stcjones

    stcjones Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    5,647
    Likes Received:
    3
    Ratings:
    +4 / 7 / -1

    #12 Jersey

    I think the one whose talent is being wasted is Taylor Price. Ocho has had plenty of time to learn the playbook and get on the same page with Brady and be productive. No one should have to hold his hand and cater the offense to him. What they did different in Cincy was tell Chad to run a down and out play....NE runs a much more complex offense...everyone NEEDS to know what everyone else is doing on EVERY play. Chad just can not get things straight and no matter how much sugar Brady and BB pile on it...he just isn't going to get it. Price deserves a chance....let him either show he can do something or not. No one will know until he gets additional playing time. Time is NOW!

  18. Mogamedogz

    Mogamedogz Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2007
    Messages:
    3,032
    Likes Received:
    5
    Ratings:
    +7 / 0 / -0

    #80 Jersey

    No he isnt.
  19. neuronet

    neuronet Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2008
    Messages:
    2,182
    Likes Received:
    4
    Ratings:
    +6 / 0 / -0

    #87 Jersey

    Great points, all. But come on. Give him just ONE play they work on together. For goodness' sake, someone in the comments said he isn't a good receiver. That is stupid. He is, look at his highlights. He didn't suddenly become old and decrepit. He has a few seasons left in ihim.
  20. TheSolderKing

    TheSolderKing Rookie

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2011
    Messages:
    2,339
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    I bet you are regretting your choice for a forum name:p
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

unset ($sidebar_block_show); ?>