SI's King has Pats in SB...this time vs 'Boys

[VJCPatriot]

Ok I get it, you think that Drew Bledsoe is washed up. You're entitled to that opinion. But may we look at the stats before we accept broad generalizations such as yours?

Drew Bledsoe circa 1996
G GS Att Comp Pct Yards YPA Lg TD Int Tkld 20+ 40+ Rate
16 16 623 373 59.9 4086 6.56 84 27 15 30/190 45 3 83.7

Drew Bledsoe circa 2005
G GS Att Comp Pct Yards YPA Lg TD Int Tkld 20+ 40+ Rate
16 16 499 300 60.1 3639 7.29 71 23 17 49/295 42 9 83.7

Well there you have it by the numbers. Drew posted an identical passer rating to what he had in 1996. His TD to INT ratio is similar as is his completion percentage. About the only difference is he made a lot more pass attempts in 1996, over 600. Meanwhile in 2005 Drew only throws for 400 yards less in 100 less attempts.

Let's leave sentiment out of this shall we? For all intensive purposes, Drew is just as productive in 2005 in Dallas as he was with the Patriots in 1996 when they went to the Superbowl.

AND this year he has an added weapon in TO. Could the Dallas offense be good? Yes. If you considered the Pats offense in 96 any good.

Before you go jumping down my throat let me make it clear that I am a Patriots fan not a Drew fan. I am behind Brady 100% and I don't regret Drew leaving the Patriots. However I find it rather illogical for Pats fans to continue the Drew bashing when he has long since left the team.

The facts support the above reasonable conclusions. If Drew has lost something physically it doesn't seem to show from his stats. Drew still has a strong arm. Drew suffers from lack of mobility. But Drew's strength remains what it has always been, being a pocket passer.

I don't see why you cannot win games 20 yards at a time. If we add up the plays, it eventually adds up to a TD does it not?

As for Drew's decision making speed, of course it's not on par with Brady. But Brady is probably the best QB in the NFL right now. But statistically speaking Drew is an above average QB as indicated by his rating, and he can be dangerous with the right weapons, that is if TO and friends cooperate.

To compare the '96 Drew to the 2006 Drew is delusional. Just because the guy had potential 10 years ago to make it to the SB does not prove he has the talent to go back this year. Drew's problem is not lack of mobility. That is a lame excuse for poor decision making and the inability to select a target quickly. Drew's problem is not physical. It is mental. If mobility were the issue, then Brady would stink. Drew's ability is lacking when it comes to quick game time decisions. Yes, he does have a strong arm still. He does not have pin point accuracy like he did. He cannot be the general that leads the team to battle. His indecision makes him choke. His best throw is 20 yards? How is that positive if it is true? You do not win games 20 yards at a time. He does not have the ability to pick apart a defense anymore. He is a gunslinger. That is all.

 

[Richter]

What game were you watching? I believe we shut them out.

Everyone is giving opinions about Bledsoes flaws (mobility, deep ball, playing under pressure, etc) but I havent seen anyone (sorry if someone did, I just scaneed the long thread) list the real flaw in Bledsoe's game: DECISON MAKING.
Yes, he can throw the ball, yes you can find good numbers in almost any category if you narrow down enough. But time and time again, Bledsoe makes poor decisions throwing the ball. Always has, always will. Thats why it is such a longshot that a Bledsoe team could win a SB. At some point through a playoff run, those bad decisions happen, and in a playoff run, they cause a loss. In 1996, we won 2 games where we played great D, ran the ball, and minimized Bledsoe's importance. In the SB, we needed to throw the ball often and well, and his poor decisions showed up again.

Those poor decisions result in Ints, sacks from holding the ball, or stupid throws on 3rd down killing drives. You can only survive so many of those against good teams, so to make a playoff run to win the SB is very difficult.

That's exactly what I was talking about when I said he doesn't have the mental ability to be a quarterback. His reads are slow and his decision making is suspect. In '96, when the Pats made that run, Curtis Martin had emerged as a full blown star in the offense (remember the 45 carry game against the Chargers that year?), and Bledsoe was in perfect position to capitalize on that success. The line was pretty good, the running game was strong, Terry Glenn was a revelation at the flanker position (setting a rookie record for receptions that year with 90, I believe), all of which allowed Bledsoe to sit back, take his time scanning the field and fire, often with the threat of play-action to give him even more time. Bledsoe was very good under those circumstances - but what QB wouldn't be? Even bad quarterbacks pick apart defenses when given those luxuries. With all this, the Patriots went 11-5, and made the Superbowl on the strength of Jacksonville's upset of Denver. With everything going his way, Bledsoe managed to ride that team to the Superbowl, where he promptly set a record for interceptions in the big game. To be fair, the offensive line wasn't great for him, but Martin was. That was Bledsoe's best year, with all the pieces in place, and he still showed how shaky he was as a decision maker in the pocket. What hope do the Cowboys have with a (depending on who you ask) mediocre to awful offensive line protecting him, and an inconsistent at best rushing attack supplementing his efforts? Slim to none, I'd say.

 

[Richter]

Drew Bledsoe circa 1996
G GS Att Comp Pct Yards YPA Lg TD Int Tkld 20+ 40+ Rate
16 16 623 373 59.9 4086 6.56 84 27 15 30/190 45 3 83.7

Drew Bledsoe circa 2005
G GS Att Comp Pct Yards YPA Lg TD Int Tkld 20+ 40+ Rate
16 16 499 300 60.1 3639 7.29 71 23 17 49/295 42 9 83.7

I don't see why you cannot win games 20 yards at a time. If we add up the plays, it eventually adds up to a TD does it not?

23/17 is hardly a great TD/Int ratio. Drew wasn't good enough in '96, why would he be now? It's not a case of being washed up, it's a case of never being great to begin with. And as much as it may seem otherwise, it pains me to say that, because for the most part Drew was a good guy and player in his time with the Pats.

As for the twenty yards at a time thing - you can't win that way, because eventually defenses figure it out and take it away from you. And if you can't do anything else, you're screwed when that happens. Bledsoe circa 2002, his first year with the Bills, is a perfect example. The hot, hot start he and his receivers had, followed by the slide into mediocrity as defenses started taking away Drew's favorite routes and forced him into doing things he didn't want to. The Bills ended up 8-8 after starting 5-3, and I don't think that's a coincidence.

 

[dryheat44]

Nobody wants to touch this nugget?

And you watch, the fantasy tight end sleeper this year will be third-rounder Dave Thomas from Texas. The kid's a keeper. Great hands, great route-runner. Brady's going to love him, and he'll find him six or seven times in the end. Write it down.

I've always found King to be delusional, but this takes it. With all the weapons the Patriots have, their #3 TE is going to catch 6-7 TDs?

 

[Richter]

Nobody wants to touch this nugget?

And you watch, the fantasy tight end sleeper this year will be third-rounder Dave Thomas from Texas. The kid's a keeper. Great hands, great route-runner. Brady's going to love him, and he'll find him six or seven times in the end. Write it down.

I've always found King to be delusional, but this takes it. With all the weapons the Patriots have, their #3 TE is going to catch 6-7 TDs?

That's how good the offense is going to be.

In all seriousness though, Brady spreads the ball around way too much for that to happen with the number #1 TE, let alone the third guy on the depth chart.

 

[Digger44]

What game were you watching? I believe we shut them out.

Everyone is giving opinions about Bledsoes flaws (mobility, deep ball, playing under pressure, etc) but I havent seen anyone (sorry if someone did, I just scaneed the long thread) list the real flaw in Bledsoe's game: DECISON MAKING.
Yes, he can throw the ball, yes you can find good numbers in almost any category if you narrow down enough. But time and time again, Bledsoe makes poor decisions throwing the ball. Always has, always will. Thats why it is such a longshot that a Bledsoe team could win a SB. At some point through a playoff run, those bad decisions happen, and in a playoff run, they cause a loss. In 1996, we won 2 games where we played great D, ran the ball, and minimized Bledsoe's importance. In the SB, we needed to throw the ball often and well, and his poor decisions showed up again.

Those poor decisions result in Ints, sacks from holding the ball, or stupid throws on 3rd down killing drives. You can only survive so many of those against good teams, so to make a playoff run to win the SB is very difficult.

you broke my heart Andy, look a few posts back.

 

[Kdo5]

Seattle will be back in the Superbowl, and it is my hopes and I am pretty confident the Pats will be too.

Though the one game I'd LOVE to see for the Superbowl,

Pats vs Falcons.

We came close to it in 2004. Just remembering this years regular season game it was so exciting. I feel that it could seriously be as exciting as the Panthers superbowl. So long as Vick can successfully throw the ball and actually challenge the Pats.

 

[VJCPatriot]

If you paid attention to the point addressed in the Quoted paragraph, the point the previous poster was making "comparing 96 Drew to 06 Drew is delusional." The stats clearly show that 96 Drew and present day Drew are statistically nearly identical. Thus, clearly it is not delusional, but rather a reasonable statement based on the facts. That is what my post addressed.

As for your anti-Bledsoe bias you are fully entitled to that. I don't intend to change your mind. But I don't see the point of ripping him either. I really don't.

23/17 is hardly a great TD/Int ratio. Drew wasn't good enough in '96, why would he be now? It's not a case of being washed up, it's a case of never being great to begin with. And as much as it may seem otherwise, it pains me to say that, because for the most part Drew was a good guy and player in his time with the Pats.

As for the twenty yards at a time thing - you can't win that way, because eventually defenses figure it out and take it away from you. And if you can't do anything else, you're screwed when that happens. Bledsoe circa 2002, his first year with the Bills, is a perfect example. The hot, hot start he and his receivers had, followed by the slide into mediocrity as defenses started taking away Drew's favorite routes and forced him into doing things he didn't want to. The Bills ended up 8-8 after starting 5-3, and I don't think that's a coincidence.

 

[Richter]

If you paid attention to the point addressed in the Quoted paragraph, the point the previous poster was making "comparing 96 Drew to 06 Drew is delusional." The stats clearly show that 96 Drew and present day Drew are statistically nearly identical. Thus, clearly it is not delusional, but rather a reasonable statement based on the facts. That is what my post addressed.

As for your anti-Bledsoe bias you are fully entitled to that. I don't intend to change your mind. But I don't see the point of ripping him either. I really don't.

That was my point though... despite similar stats in most areas, in flat out production numbers, Bledsoe was a fair bit worse in 2005 versus ten years ago. 23/17 and 27/15 is quite easily the difference between 9-7 and 11-5.

And for the record, while I have listed some of Drew's flaws, I was really ripping the Cowboys on the whole, and how they won't be able to mask those flaws.

 

[PowerAlley.com]

I wasted all that money in 96', just to watch Bledsoe throw 4 picks. I would love to see him on the other side of the field even with TO and Glenn. "The deer in the headlights" look will come out, the feet will start shuffling and the int's will be there.

Pats by at least 14.

Mike
Poweralley.com

 

[dante828]

Look, no one was a bigger Drew fan when he was here, I supported him to the bitter end. But the thing is, he is a flawed quarterback who needs a ton of talent around him in order to be successful. Bledsoe can't carry a team on his own, or make his teammates better (ala Brady). I think the point has been made that Bledsoe is a poor decision maker, and when the game is put on his shoulders, he has a tendency to make the wrong decision almost every time.

As for stats, the fact remains that in 96 he had more telent around him which covered for his flaws, and when he didn't have the talent to cover those flaws last year, the Cowboys went 9-7, not 11-5, and I can almost guarantee that Bledsoe caused some of those losses with some bad fourth quarter decisions (which he has always made).

So, will TO help, I am sure he will. But Jones is no Martin, and the Dallas offensive line is not that good. And I am sure TO will stay quiet when Bledsoe starts throwing 4th quarter interceptions, he has always been so reasonable before

By half way through the season I can see TO openly submarining Bledsoe in any way he can. Maybe Parcells can control that, but I am not sold. It's an interesting experiment, and for Drew's sake I hope it works, I do genuinely like the guy. But if Bledsoe was ever going to fix these problems he would have already, and it's going to be very difficult for Dallas to get anywhere with him at the helm.

 

[Digger44]

If you paid attention to the point addressed in the Quoted paragraph, the point the previous poster was making "comparing 96 Drew to 06 Drew is delusional." The stats clearly show that 96 Drew and present day Drew are statistically nearly identical. Thus, clearly it is not delusional, but rather a reasonable statement based on the facts. That is what my post addressed.

As for your anti-Bledsoe bias you are fully entitled to that. I don't intend to change your mind. But I don't see the point of ripping him either. I really don't.

So if you paid attention to the point addressed in context of the other posts you would find that there is an added element besides basing an opinion on comparable stats. The delusion rests upon your idea that the '96 Drew is the same as the 06 Drew. How can you make a jump from a QB who started strong in his firts few years and has never gotten better with the element of running a football team. Drew is not 10 years wiser. He has not gotten quicker. He has done nothing to show that he is a better QB than the one who threw games away. This is not Drew bashing. It is a fact that Drew never got better. He had ups, he had downs, he never learned and progressed. It is delusional to say, "His stats are the same from 10 years ago, therefore he is the same QB." The guy who made mistakes as a 3rd year QB is making the same stupid mistakes as a 10 year QB. Fact.

 

[holyredeemer]

You can believe that if you want, Bledsoe is a loser. He doesn't have the mental ability needed to be a winning QB. And I'd say career numbers do matter, because for T.O. to catch a ball, Bledsoe has to get it to him.

By the way, I seem to remember the last game against the Cowboys being a 12-0 asswhooping in foul weather conditions laid down on the Cowpokes. Living in Texas currently and seeing most if not all of the Cowboys' games season to season, I'm not too worried about that team.

First of all 12-0 is hardly an ass whooping, oh and here's some stats for ya.

The cowboys outgained us 291 yds. to 268 yds.
The cowboys out rushed us and out passed us, and not to mention controlled the clock on us.
That was with Troy Hambrick at RB and Quincy Carter at QB. QC threw 3 INT's in that game, and if not for thos INT's we probably wouldnt have one the damn game. Hardly an ASS WHOOPIN'!
Now, not only is Dallas sporting a more dynamic rushing game but they have TO, Glenn and Bledsoe. Bledsoe, not Quincy freaking Carter. I remember watching that game and I kept thinking "Damn, parcells has our freaking number." and Carter just kept screwing it up. Here's the rest of the stats if u really want to look. I got lazy, my bad.

http://www.jt-sw.com/football/boxes/index.nsf/Games/2003-11-dal-ne

 

[Richter]

First of all 12-0 is hardly an ass whooping, oh and here's some stats for ya.

The cowboys outgained us 291 yds. to 268 yds.
The cowboys out rushed us and out passed us, and not to mention controlled the clock on us.
That was with Troy Hambrick at RB and Quincy Carter at QB. QC threw 3 INT's in that game, and if not for thos INT's we probably wouldnt have one the damn game. Hardly an ASS WHOOPIN'!
Now, not only is Dallas sporting a more dynamic rushing game but they have TO, Glenn and Bledsoe. Bledsoe, not Quincy freaking Carter. I remember watching that game and I kept thinking "Damn, parcells has our freaking number." and Carter just kept screwing it up. Here's the rest of the stats if u really want to look. I got lazy, my bad.

http://www.jt-sw.com/football/boxes/index.nsf/Games/2003-11-dal-ne

And yet, the result was 12-0, and not once watching that game did you even get the impression that the Cowboys might score. Your use of stats to justify your position is disingenuous, the disparity in net passing yards (4) and time of possession (92 seconds) are hardly notable, especially played in a game with such bad weather. Also, Brady outpassed Carter (by 2 yards), the net passing total reflects yards lost to sacks, which Carter only had one of. You really think Bledsoe would be sacked less than Carter? Not to mention your omission of the lost fumble by the Patriots, which also had an impact. That game was an asswhooping, plain and simple. Just because you worship at the altar of Parcells doesn't mean we all do, or think that he has the Pats' number.

Plus, if you actually watched the Cowpokes last year, you'd know the running game was less than dynamic. More like used out of necessity, despite mediocrity, because their line couldn't keep Bledsoe standing.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

...

Drew Bledsoe circa 1996
G GS Att Comp Pct Yards YPA Lg TD Int Tkld 20+ 40+ Rate
16 16 623 373 59.9 4086 6.56 84 27 15 30/190 45 3 83.7

Drew Bledsoe circa 2005
G GS Att Comp Pct Yards YPA Lg TD Int Tkld 20+ 40+ Rate
16 16 499 300 60.1 3639 7.29 71 23 17 49/295 42 9 83.7

Well there you have it by the numbers.

....

Let's leave sentiment out of this shall we? For all intensive purposes, Drew is just as productive in 2005 in Dallas as he was with the Patriots in 1996 when they went to the Superbowl.

...

The facts support the above reasonable conclusions.

...

As for Drew's decision making speed, of course it's not on par with Brady. But Brady is probably the best QB in the NFL right now. But statistically speaking Drew is an above average QB as indicated by his rating, and he can be dangerous with the right weapons, that is if TO and friends cooperate.

I'm one of those who was critical of Bledsoe earlier in this thread. And, I wasn't questioning his basic skill set or saying he'd "lost it" statistically, rather that my gut feeling is that he doesn't come through in the big moments of the big games. I don't know whether it's his decision-making, though I've watched games where he made a mistake at the worst possible time or whether it's the intangible edge that Brady has and he lacks... The bottom line is that I just don't see Drew winning a Conference Championship again.

 

[holyredeemer]

And yet, the result was 12-0, and not once watching that game did you even get the impression that the Cowboys might score. Your use of stats to justify your position is disingenuous, the disparity in net passing yards (4) and time of possession (92 seconds) are hardly notable, especially played in a game with such bad weather. Also, Brady outpassed Carter (by 2 yards), the net passing total reflects yards lost to sacks, which Carter only had one of. You really think Bledsoe would be sacked less than Carter? Not to mention your omission of the lost fumble by the Patriots, which also had an impact. That game was an asswhooping, plain and simple. Just because you worship at the altar of Parcells doesn't mean we all do, or think that he has the Pats' number.

Plus, if you actually watched the Cowpokes last year, you'd know the running game was less than dynamic. More like used out of necessity, despite mediocrity, because their line couldn't keep Bledsoe standing.

My point in using the stats, was to point out that in no way was it an ass whoopin'! I dont know what you consider an ass whoopin, but aside from Carter's mistakes, that whole game the cowboys drove down the field on us, AND challenged us to the end. I'm sorry, but I really dont see 12-0 as an ass whoopin. Also, WTF does the weather have anything to do with it? The cowboys had to play in that same weather, or does that just not matter? I was simply trying to point out that they are an improved team, from that team who played us 2 yrs ago. If you dont think they have been upgraded tremendously then their is something seriously wrong wtih you. Thats the only point I was trying to make. Regarding Parcells, I think he's a piece of ****. So, please dont bring up something about me that you have no clue to. I hate that man with a passion after what he did to this organization.
As far as Dallas's running game, look at the numbers when compared to ours. Their running game that they used out of "NECESSITY" out did us.
So, it would appear that Dallas must have the better running game, right?
Dallas had 32.6 att/g------They ran for 1861 yds team total/ and avg. 3.6 yds a carry.
In NE we had 27.4 att/g----Ran for 1512 yds total and avg. 3.4 yds. a carry.
Dalla ran the ball, not because they had to, but because thats what Parcells does. He pounds it, and pounds it, and pounds it, regardless of ypc.

My point is that Dallas finished the season only avg. 30 yds. less then us a game. Now throw TO into the mix, and JJ probably getting off of his soph. slump, and it would be a very competitive game. I'm sorry that the fact I'm a die hard Pats fan but not a complete homer doesnt satisfy your tastes.

 

[Digger44]

My point is that Dallas finished the season only avg. 30 yds. less then us a game. Now throw TO into the mix, and JJ probably getting off of his soph. slump, and it would be a very competitive game. I'm sorry that the fact I'm a die hard Pats fan but not a complete homer doesnt satisfy your tastes.

Ya but Dallas doesnt have a QB so it doesn't matter. lol. Just one reminder though because your stat theory is flawed. If Dallas played all the same teams as the Pats did, then your theory would be correct. Fact is that NE has one of the worst schedules last year and Dallas didn't. As to the 12-0 thing, Dallas didn't just run bcs that is what the Tuna does. They ran bcs they couldn't pass with the weather conditions.

 

[holyredeemer]

Ya but Dallas doesnt have a QB so it doesn't matter. lol. Just one reminder though because your stat theory is flawed. If Dallas played all the same teams as the Pats did, then your theory would be correct. Fact is that NE has one of the worst schedules last year and Dallas didn't. As to the 12-0 thing, Dallas didn't just run bcs that is what the Tuna does. They ran bcs they couldn't pass with the weather conditions.

Well, I think all of the variables you just mentioned are a cop-out. That's just my opinion though. You play who you are supposed to play, and regardless of talent, even the worst teams can match up well against better ones. So, it's not really flaws, but merely points of view. You play who you are scheduled to pay, and you execute to get the job done. Regardless, if Dallas and NE face off in the SB, it would be a great game. You know how I know that? Because I am a patriots fan, a total lifer. As a lifer you know the pats always play down to their competition, its sad but its true. I know that was a bit off of our topic, but i qas just trying to get back to the threads topic.

 

[yamamba]

generally i dont trust the "experts" - they have a thinly spread knowledge of the teams...but dallas?
i think if you have paid much attention to them then they are certainly in the running.

and the reason they might not make it?

the defense looks pretty good and deep - maybe safety is a concern but they have more depth there than before too.

offense - running game could be good, wide receivers could be very very good....

and it doesnt depend on drew - he is a good qb, not tom brady but good arm, smart, still able....the problem is we know he isnt mobile and dallas' offensive line could be ok but could be weak, lots of unknowns with their offseason changes and some (probowlers - adams and rivera) coming off injuries - can they protect him?

to me, this is the biggest doubt about dallas progressing, not bledsoe per se.

 

[PatsFan4eva]

it would be a media dream!