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Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by ivanvamp, Feb 11, 2010.

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  1. ivanvamp

    ivanvamp In the Starting Line-Up

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    From: NFL offseason burning questions for AFC teams - Jim Trotter - SI.com

    "NEW ENGLAND PATRIOTS -- Will the Patriots' defensive struggles vanish with Bill Belichick calling the plays?

    The unit was uncharacteristically porous in losses to quality teams, surrendering 38 to the Saints and 35 to the Colts, who trailed by 17 in the second quarter. The impact players who contributed to three Super Bowl wins are largely gone, and the one who remains, nose tackle Vince Wilfork, is an unrestricted free agent who wants big money or his walking papers. Inside linebacker Jerod Mayo has the potential to be an elite player, but the cupboard is sparse from there. Linebacker Adalius Thomas hasn't lived up to expectations and will probably be released. Carolina free-agent end/linebacker Julius Peppers would cure some ills, but the Patriots' problems on defense run deeper than one player."

    I think they're right that one player won't "cure" what ills the Patriots defense, but I think they're missing the big picture. As much as people said the Pats have an aging defense, nothing could be further from the truth (well, obviously, we're *all* aging). The front line (Wilfork, Warren, and Green) are in their primes, not on the back 9 yet. The main backups (Pryor, Brace, and Wright) are all younger than 28.

    The LB corps features Mayo, Banta-Cain (30...not too old yet), Guyton (24), Woods (28), and Thomas (32). The main guys in the secondary are Bodden (28), Meriweather (26), Sanders (26), McGowan (26), Butler (23), Willhite (26), and Wheatley (24).

    The main issue for the Patriots is inexperience, in my opinion. There's enough talent for this to be a good - maybe not dominant, but good - defense. If they add a couple of more guys they have a chance to be very good.
     
  2. primetime

    primetime Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Ty Warren was an impact player in the 2003-2004 Super Bowl years but as always is largely forgotten despite being the second best player on the defense and one of the top 3-4 ends in the league.
     
  3. MrTibbs

    MrTibbs Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    The Patriots seemed to envy what Manning was doing on the offensive side of the ball by spreading teams out. It looks as if they tried to put Brady in the same type of offense as Manning. Yeah it worked to an extent, Brady has had one heck of a passing attack compared to the other teams in the league. The one element the Patriots have overlooked is they haven't won a Super Bowl since going into the spread offense bullsh*t. They've become WAY too predictable (even including the 07 season) for defenses to defend. If anyone remembers toward the end of that 07 season they scored less and less points (besides week 17 vs. Giants) through the season as teams figured it out. The Giants got revenge and held that O to 14 points.

    No more do we see Brady hitting "whoever is open" or the run game pounding a defense into submission. It's a two receiver west coast offense show and no real run threat. Until that changes we won't see Brady hold the Lombardi ever again. Look what the Jets accomplished with a solid run game and somewhat steady defense.

    I really truly think the Patriots time has come and gone. They don't even look to get back to what won them the big games. It's all Brady shotgun hit Welker 10 times and try for Moss long type games while defenses beat the hell out of him for trying it. So much for tayloring the offense to go against the defense they are facing. They run the same crap regardless of who it is.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2010
  4. robertweathers

    robertweathers Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    Wouldn't say an impact player. Very, very solid would be my choice of words.

    2006 he was a force though. Would love to see that level of play again...
     
  5. RodThePat

    RodThePat In the Starting Line-Up

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    When your receivers are Moss, Welker, Aiken, Edelman, Baker, Watson, there is no quarterback in the history of the NFL who wouldn't look primarily towards the first two options. The "whoever is open" philosophy works well when you have a deep, although unspectacular, receiving core, where all guys have similar quality. The dropoff between Moss and Welker and the other guys is just ridiculous, so it makes complete sense Brady is trying to get them the ball.

    I agree about the amount of shotgun snaps though. We basically became a Mike Martz/Andy Reid like "yeah, we are going to pass the ball 2 out of 3 downs, try and stop us!" offense, and that is detrimental to our success. Our lack of quality in he backfield greatly contributes to this, so let's hope this need is assessed in the offseason.
     
  6. Ochmed Jones

    Ochmed Jones Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Talent is nice, but playmakers are desperately needed.

    On offense I think the Pats offense needs better play calling and must become more dedicated to the run. An infusion of youth is desperately needed at RB; as well as depth at the WR position.

    On defense we have to get tougher down the middle. And desperately need playmakers at the OLB positions.

    On ST we need impact return men that can help with field position.
     
  7. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Do you even lift? PatsFans.com Supporter

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    If we get a player the calibur of Julius Peppers (doubt it) and slide someone capable (or at least more capable than Guyton, which isn't saying much) in next to Mayo, this defense will be a top three NFL defense. Not just in ranking, as this defense was ranked #6 last season but anybody with a set of eyes could tell you that this was NOT a top ten defense. I mean that this defense could be dominant. This is, of course, assuming we franchise Wilfork.
     
  8. BionicPatriot

    BionicPatriot In the Starting Line-Up

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    Agreed. If a miracle happens and we retain bodden, I'm fine with this secondary. The front 7 will be the area most needed. We need a pass rusher, and a thumper pure and simple. If we get these two things like you said, we're ready to rock n roll on defense.

    What I think hurt the Pats the most is all their best players on D got old at the same time and it was a steady decline. In 04 Law's time was over. In 05, Harrison.Bruschi/McGinest/Johnson/Phifer all began going down hill. After 07, Vrabel got too old. YThat's a **** load of big players on defense for us to lose at once. In our arrogance, we believe Belichick would easily replace them. Well I guess time shows us it isn't easy replacing so many guys huh?

    If the Pats can make some solid additions to the D this year, I think they will have finally replaced most of the holes they had from losing those guys. I feel pretty slid with Mayo at ILB, Chung at SS, Merriweather continues to become more effective each year at FS. We have some holes filled, we just need to fill a couple more and we'll be set.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2010
  9. onegr8om

    onegr8om Practice Squad Player

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    I think Peppers(Or someone/anyone with pass rush/rush the qb skills) is the key. Pressure on the QB will make the rest of the defense that much better. Keep Vince, sign Pierce/Dansby to play beside Mayo. Sign Peppers or draft someone who can rush and get pressure on the QB. We got great draft picks(4 in the first two rounds) that we NEED to draft right. This team COULD be great again. I agree also with a change in offensive philosophy. A 3 down back would be nice and i would love a receiver(Like a Boldin perhaps) that could come in as an immediate #2 and future #1 when Moss leaves/retires). Should be a fun offseason!
     
  10. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Peppers sucks.
     
  11. Willie55

    Willie55 In the Starting Line-Up

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    So what are you trying to say? You're not being clear enough. :p
     
  12. resdubwhite

    resdubwhite In the Starting Line-Up

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    I'd agree with a lot of that.
     
  13. MrTibbs

    MrTibbs Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    Brady won't last long with the type of offense the Patriots continue to play. This guy is taking hit after hit after hit. A solid run game will take that element away or lessen it. Defenses make it a point to beat him to a pulp regardless if he completes a pass or not.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2010
  14. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Garrulity. **sigh** :confused2:
     
  15. JackBauer

    JackBauer Pro Bowl Player

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    This assessment of Guyton is way too harsh, and unjustified.

    Bruschi thinks he can be a starter. At minimum, I can see him as a Phifer-type coverage LB.
     
  16. carolinatony

    carolinatony In the Starting Line-Up

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    I couldn't agree more. Give me a Dillion RB and some no names WR's and a Attacking defense like we used to have.
    We have changed in the last few years.
     
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