Sirius Radio says Bodden still in Houston, could sign a deal later today

[BradyFTW!]

Re: Sirius Radio says Bodden still in Houston,could sign a deal later today

The Patriots have a privately financed stadium. That makes a difference.

A huge one. I don't think that the people who are complaining about the Pats' budget realize how expensive debt service really is. I also think it's funny that fans here are comfortable *expecting* Kraft to subsidize the Patriots, since clearly any real owner would have no problem with turning a $1.4B asset into, at best, a loss leader.

"I make sacrifices too! I devote hours of many sundays to sitting around, drinking beer, and watching football! So why can't Kraft open up his damn wallet and part with another $50 million here and there? He owes me!"

 

[Sleeping King]

If he leaves, he leaves. We save money and give new guys playing time. By the end of the year we're a better team. He was an UDFA, so it's time we start developing our own UDFAs with playing time.
:snob:

I don't want this to come off as me being an ass since it's not my intention. But I've heard this "save money" talk from a lot of posters here. Save money for what? The 2011 season? To spend on Lito Sheppard? I guess I'm just confused how saving money without a cap makes the team any better.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Re: Sirius Radio says Bodden still in Houston,could sign a deal later today

I think a team that is in the top 3 in revenue should be in the top 3 in total salary if there is no cap. Right now they are playing with MLB rules. I'm not saying they need to be the Yankees and get every FA but losing important pieces off a team you hope will compete is bad news.

This is also speculative. He hasn't signed anything yet thankfully.

Spending more on player salaries does not translate into more wins.

Additionally, the Pats have expenses (mortgage on the stadium) and other relief (income tax and other business credits) that other teams have available to them.

 

[Sleeping King]

Re: Sirius Radio says Bodden still in Houston,could sign a deal later today

Spending more on player salaries does not translate into more wins.

Additionally, the Pats have expenses (mortgage on the stadium) and other relief (income tax and other business credits) that other teams have available to them.

Losing your best corner does not translate into more wins. Like I said I'm not asking for Kraft to turn into the Yankees/Red Sox and go armageddon on the free agent class. But if they lose Bodden for say $4 million in total contract value it makes no sense.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Re: Sirius Radio says Bodden still in Houston,could sign a deal later today

I wish Boldin would have felt that way

The difference is that Bodden knew that his value was at a historic low after basically being fired by the Lions. Anything short of a catastrophic injury in 2009 meant that he'd be gunning for a much bigger contract in 2010. That's why the Pats wanted to sign him to a long-term contract last year; because they knew he was undervalued.

Boldin, OTOH, probably knows that his value will never be higher than it is right now. He's on the wrong side of 30, injury-prone, and he would have to be in an offense like the Patriots' to put up the kind of stats that he had with the Cardinals again. Playing out a one-year deal was only going to reduce his value, while pushing out the big payday that he could already command by yet another year. So why would he agree to do it? If the Pats thought that he would be even remotely enticed by a Moss/Bodden deal (come play for us and re-establish your value in one year!), then I dunno wtf they were thinking.

Don't think that I'm down on Boldin, btw. For what the Ravens got him for, I absolutely think that the Pats should have at least matched.

 

[Metaphors]

Re: Sirius Radio says Bodden still in Houston,could sign a deal later today

I think a team that is in the top 3 in revenue should be in the top 3 in total salary if there is no cap. Right now they are playing with MLB rules.

That is for 2010. Teams have to plan for the possibility that 2011+:

a) Will have a cap

b) It will be less (and potentially significantly less) than the last CBA specified

Add to that the fact that 2010 has 200 less free agents than normal (meaning that 2011 could potentially have 200 more free agents than normal) and this is the deepest draft in a generation...and it really doesn't make any sense to blow your wad on free agents this year.

2010 is a year to stabilize your payroll situation, lock up your own core players and plan for the new rules in 2011. I don't know what those rules will be, but I've got a feeling the owners have a pretty good idea. Teams paying big for new players this year have some level of desperation they are dealing with.

So Bodden fits neatly into the gray area of this equation. I have no doubt the Pats consider him an important player to retain, but the Texans (a terrible pass defense that lost their best CB, with a fanbase dying to make the playoffs) may be desperate enough to trump anything the Pats are willing to do.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Re: Sirius Radio says Bodden still in Houston,could sign a deal later today

Losing your best corner does not translate into more wins.

Takes more than losing a CB to send a 10-6 team to 8-8.

Seem to recall winning one less game w/ Bodden than last year. every year is different.

Point is there are many ways to win a football game.

Like I said I'm not asking for Kraft to turn into the Yankees/Red Sox and go armageddon on the free agent class.

Actually, you are. You said that if a team is top 3 in revenue, they should be top 3 in salary. Its not a bad thing to say. If the Pats were #1 in profit and #32nd in player salaries since 2000, I'd be pissed. Pats are in the top 10 for cash paid. Thats good enough for me.

But if they lose Bodden for say $4 million in total contract value it makes no sense.

Agreed. Bodden will be getting much more than that.

 

[condon84]

A pass rush would be nice but no matter how good your pass rush is,there are going to be times and games where your pass rush is outdone by the oppositions OL so you still need a bonafide secondary to win games for you when the DL is getting beat

That's a good point.

A perfect scenario would be having a great pass rush with some good corners, but rarely do we see this in the NFL because of salary cap.

IMO, if we do lose Bodden and go with Butler/Springs/Wilhite combination as our top three CBs, then this will really put the onus on Bill to scheme a pass rush. Currently, I don't see anyone in our roster that we can consistently depend on in creating pressure. Banta-Cain is decent, but if he's our main pass rusher next year with the same pressure scheme, then we're in trouble.

 

[Rob0729]

Re: Sirius Radio says Bodden still in Houston,could sign a deal later today

Losing your best corner does not translate into more wins. Like I said I'm not asking for Kraft to turn into the Yankees/Red Sox and go armageddon on the free agent class. But if they lose Bodden for say $4 million in total contract value it makes no sense.

Again, losing Bodden is a loss. If the Pats turn that money into several players in different areas of need, then his loss will not be missed at least not that much. Bodden was a good player for us and our best CB, but he wasn't Revis. You improve the front seven and his loss will be minimized quite a bit.

If the Pats lost Wilfork over $4 million, that might be different unless they used that money to get a Peppers.

Besides, Bodden hasn't even signed yet. He could be using the Texans to drive up the Pats' offer for all we know.

 

[JMarr]

Re: Sirius Radio says Bodden still in Houston,could sign a deal later today

Do you think that as an NFL team, their operating costs have gone up?

Kraft himself said that he has no other businesses where 40% of his revenue goes to player salaries. No question the Pats are making money, but they are in the top 10 in the outlay of cash to players.

Every good business has a budget. Should the Pats not have one?

Will nothing but Super Bowls satisfy your own personal issue with the team?

OMG! You're seriously going to compare running an NFL team to running some kind of packaging company, payroll-wise??? You're willing to compare the NFLPA to your Plumbers and Fitters Local?" The costs inherent to paying employees of Patriot Place to those of paying iconic national superstar athletes? Unfreakinbelievable. Yes the NFL is a "business." It is also a "game/sport" (even moreso than it is a business, according to the Supreme Court).

Robert, you're one of the most level-headed posters here, but I am so tired of people justifying the Patriots' approach to "value" in it's players by using a standard business model you might use for starting up a Subway franchise. Sorry that's just me.
:bricks:

I "get" the whole "value" argument, I really do. Just DON"T use it to justify every move or non-move the Pats make. Do you think when they signed Adalius Thomas they might have been thinking, "this is what he is going to be worth on the open market--which is more than the value we assign him, however we have a huge glaring hole at the LB position, and we need to do something about it."

 

[Sleeping King]

Re: Sirius Radio says Bodden still in Houston,could sign a deal later today

Takes more than losing a CB to send a 10-6 team to 8-8.

Seem to recall winning one less game w/ Bodden than last year. every year is different.

Point is there are many ways to win a football game.



Actually, you are. You said that if a team is top 3 in revenue, they should be top 3 in salary. Its not a bad thing to say. If the Pats were #1 in profit and #32nd in player salaries since 2000, I'd be pissed. Pats are in the top 10 for cash paid. Thats good enough for me.



Agreed. Bodden will be getting much more than that.

I'm taking $4 million more than what the Patriots might have offered not $4 million contract. The 2010 Patriots are a fence team. Meaning they are close to being a contender and close to not making the playoffs. Their record has been progressively worse for three straight seasons. Despite what the homers may want to think the team has a plenty of holes to fill. They can absolutely get started on those with the top 4 picks. They can fill a few (WR2, P, Vet LB) all with reasonable free agents like usual but they need to keep the good players that were on the team that went 10-6. They did that so far with TBC, Neal and Wilfork. Losing Bodden opens up a massive hole.

I hate being negative but if the starting corners are Butler/Whilhite it's going to be a long season.

 

[lostjumper]

According to my sources, the Texans lowered their offer to $675,000 per year. The Patriots then lowered their offer to $430,000. The Texans finally signed him at $166,000. Bodden has signed a 6-year deal worth approximately $900,000, with $860,000 coming in the final year, and a $6,000 bonus if Bodden wins league MVP more than four times. The Patriots thought it was a little too high, although they would have loved to have had Bodden back.

This is a funny post

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

You have to wonder if the team should have held off of talks with Banta-Cain until they got a deal settled with Bodden first.

I think talks with Cain could have waited as I doubt the door was being knocked down for teams desiring Tully as they are with Leigh.

Depends on how you look at which of these players was more important to re-sign

This discussion was in another thread about a week ago

 

[BelichickFan]

According to my sources, the Texans lowered their offer to $675,000 per year. The Patriots then lowered their offer to $430,000. The Texans finally signed him at $166,000. Bodden has signed a 6-year deal worth approximately $900,000, with $860,000 coming in the final year, and a $6,000 bonus if Bodden wins league MVP more than four times. The Patriots thought it was a little too high, although they would have loved to have had Bodden back.

This is a funny post

Yeah, the sad thing is the 6 year, $900K deal that we're laughing at would still be real good money for most of us :bricks:

 

[paradox]

We are ****ed unless we trade for a #1 type CB. Wilhite and Wheatley should not step onto the field next season.

I don't want BB using an early pick on a CB either.

 

[patsinthesnow]

Butler-Wilhite may be a risky choice, but I could see BB taking it.

Butler- has potential to be the best corner since Ty Law, you can see the potential.

Wilhite- The talent is there, he needs to be coached. He is right near receivers, just is dumb by never looking towards the ball.

It would be a very young duo that could be here for 4 years straight, something the pats haven't had.

EDIT: To the OP, I classify Wheatley as a bust and shouldn't step on the field, but I think Wilhite can be coached up to be a good #2 CB.
He did start 8 games last season.

 

[DW Toys]

Re: Sirius Radio says Bodden still in Houston,could sign a deal later today

If Bodden signs with the Texans, it is a loss. But it isn't an insurmountable loss. Bodden is not Darrelle Revis. He was arguably the Pats' best CB last year, but he is replaceable. It hurts, but doesn't kill this team. The team's fortunes are not resting on whether they resign Bodden or not.

It does put a bigger priority on CB though.

Cousin,
I know Wilfork was hurt some and so was Mayo. Wasn't Bodden perhaps the best player on the Patriots D last year in retrospect?

The only idea I have to get a starting CB are these two trades that I will get roasted for but it is what is is.

Look yes I am not their biggest fans but you have basically 5 commodities you can trade on the present Pats roster.

1-Matt Light (I love this guy but you have Volmer and LeVoir and Kaczur who just signed an extension) and a $4.5m Salary with not CAP punishment.

2-Ron Brace(or Pryor) Signed in somewhat of a case as a fallback in case VW did not sign yet a good young player to dangle for need DT teams.

3-Maroney-Have to get what you can get.

4-Sanders-A good safety but we have 4. He is not the long term solution.

5-AD-Probably not as bad as we think. Just anti-establishment.

We need a CB. Richard Marshall has as much talent as Bodden and 25 years old. He is a good tackling CB. He has a second round tender. Do we throw a second rounder to a prover young NFL CB or hope a drafted rookie can come through? I would rather dangle one of the above and a lower picks to conserve our 4 in the top 53 but we seem to have another hole perhaps today.

My second thought is a trade with the Skins. They need OLB, RB and S. They also need a QB but would be better served to grab a starting LT Okung and jump back into the first at say.....#22 for Colt McCoy or even Claussen if he drops.

They have a first round tender on CB Carlos Rogers who is only 28. Carlos wants OUT. They also have a TE that they might give up in Cooley who would upgrade our offense and is only 27. He is another Clark.. They also have a great #2 WR for us who has one more year under contract (2010) and caught 70 passes in a weak passing game last year, Santana Moss. He is 30 and still has some years. He has to be a better choice than Reed, Mason or Patten.

I say trade #22 for their #37 and get Rogers and Moss, (perhaps Cooley) and give them the choice of these that they need to fit. OLB is a major need because they are switching to a 3-4. They want to replace Portis at RB. They cut two of their RBs last week. Shanny has always liked Maroney. They were interested in S A.Rolle so you know they want someone to pair with Landry at Safety. You guys fill in the names so I don't fictionally give away your favorites in this proposed consideration.
DW Toys

 

[JackBauer]

We are ****ed unless we trade for a #1 type CB. Wilhite and Wheatley should not step onto the field next season.

I don't want BB using an early pick on a CB either.

Wilhite will absolutely step on the field and could be the #2 CB or, at worst, the #3.

I really don't get all this venom for Wilhite. I don't know how you can say that about Wheatley, either, since none of us know what his situation is.

 

[patsfan-1982]

Yeah, the sad thing is the 6 year, $900K deal that we're laughing at would still be real good money for most of us :bricks:

ya i think i could live a pretty good life for 900k a year. lol some footballs players say they can't feed there kids for 5 million a year.


i don't make half of 900k a year and my kids have everything they want. what i would like to know what are they feeding there kids. lol

 

[Rob0729]

You have to wonder if the team should have held off of talks with Banta-Cain until they got a deal settled with Bodden first.

I think talks with Cain could have waited as I doubt the door was being knocked down for teams desiring Tully as they are with Leigh.

Depends on how you look at which of these players was more important to re-sign

This discussion was in another thread about a week ago

Actually, I think TBC would be in more demand with all the teams switching to 3-4. I don't think TBC had anything to do with Bodden's negotiations. I think Bodden's overinflated view of his worth was the biggest problems if the rumors are true that he has come down a lot from his demands.