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Simplify the offense to make it more teachable?

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by Fencer, May 11, 2012.

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  1. Fencer

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  2. BradyManny

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    Let's see...you have the #2 offense in the league, and offense which carried a subpar defense to the brink of a Super Bowl, in large part thanks to its complexity and its players mastery of it. Then you have added three wide receivers with experience in your offensive system while losing none of your offensive weapons.

    So, why again should we dumb it down? If anything, it should go the other way. With the experience guys like Gronk, Hernandez, Welker, Lloyd, Gaffney, Branch, Stallworth have in this offense - let the maestro QB Tom Brady work his magic.

    If anything, McDaniels answer to me suggests he's going back to the lab to see what wizardry he can come up with to shock the league the way he did in 2007, with unseen explosiveness out of the gates. O'Brien was a solid OC, but I think McDaniels is salivating over this cast of unrivaled weaponry.
    Last edited: May 11, 2012
  3. Deus Irae

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    Seems pretty clear...
  4. Off The Grid

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    Haven't we...ummm...already exhausted this subject, recently?? :confused:
  5. Deus Irae

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    The recycling threads, post-2008....

    1.) Offense too complex

    2.) Too much empty backfield

    3.) Not enough running game

    4.) Not enough blitzing

    5.) Not enough pass rush

    6.) Offensive coordinator sucks

    7.) Belichick's trying to do too much

    8.) DBs can't cover

    9.) Don't question BB (in one form or another)

    10.) BB's lost it (coaching/GMing/both)

    Edit: Also a newer, but still repeating, topic

    Belichick's version of the 3-4 is obsolete
    Last edited: May 11, 2012
  6. BlueThunder

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    From a fan's POV you forgot...

    The cheerleaders routines are getting old. ;)
  7. Off The Grid

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    Ah, yes.....
  8. BelichickFan

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  9. TB146

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    Last edited: May 11, 2012
  10. Bombdog

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    I disagree I could watch the cheerleaders do their routines all day, Oh and by the way the offense will be amazing this year
  11. Brady_to_Moss

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    #95 Jersey

    For Ocho yes. We need a stick figure highlight to show that guy how to run routes in our system
  12. Arrington Planet

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    Being a bit of an a**hole...

    [​IMG]
  13. Fencer

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  14. nabwong

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    I think I came a little after reading this.
    Last edited: May 11, 2012
  15. Metaphors

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    -- Rex Ryan after getting the transcript of the Welker press conference prior to the 2010 playoff game

    As for the OP, who exactly requires this "simplification"?

    OL? Gallery is the only new guy and there are options if he flops.

    TE? Fells is new but is playing a role that reserve tackles can master.

    RB? O'Brien did a fine job but his use of the RB talent in the offense was more kindergarten than graduate level study. This will be the single biggest area of potential improvement with McDaniels back at the helm.

    WR? I fully expect the 12 WR candidates to rise out of the Gillette turf on platforms waiting for the training camp horn to signal the start of their competition. Whichever 5 are left standing after confronting the complexity of the offense (and the cold stare of the Game Master Brady) get to move onto the regular season roster.

    QB? A complex offense plays to Brady's greatest strengths.

    If the simplification argument is based on some deficiency in WR development/production, that shouldn't be a problem in 2012 absent injuries. They have plenty of players that have had significant success with Brady and/or McDaniels (Welker, Lloyd, Branch, Gaffney, Stallworth). Considering how infrequently a #4/#5 receiver is needed in this offense, that is more than enough without even considering the others.
  16. Fencer

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    Reasons one might want to simply the offense:

    1. WRs have trouble learning it. Counter-argument A -- choose from among lots of WRs to find ones who can. Counter-argument B -- the young TEs seemed to do well enough.

    2. Brady hasn't made consistently great choices in. Counter-argument A -- Nobody's perfect, and he's as close as to perfect as it comes. Counter-argument B -- He'd make better choices if he trusted his receivers more, which he would if he were right to trust them more.

    3. RBs have trouble learning how to pass-block. Counter-argument -- Does that really have much to do with the scheme?

    4. OL make mental errors. Counter-argument -- Who except Mankins has a big problem with that? And how bad are his problems anyway?

    Fair enough ...
  17. Wolfpack

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    If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
  18. BradyManny

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    Since the era of the McDaniels/Brady/Belichick offense has gone explosive, in four seasons as a starter (including one coming off a major injury), Brady has won 2 MVPs, gone to 2 Super Bowls, thrown for 153 touchdowns versus 37 interceptions, piled up 18,339 yards, completed 66.5% of his passes.

    For frame of reference, that means his average season is 38 touchdowns, 9 interceptions, and 4854 yards per season.

    What part about that isn't consistently great? Bottom line - this offense doesn't have to reinvent itself, McDaniels will just give it a tune-up. It just needs to continue to work on making itself as impervious to defenses like the Giants as it can. And we got Lloyd to do just that.

    It's the defense that needs a revolution, and Belichick has that process under way.
    Last edited: May 12, 2012
  19. Patriot Missile

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    If by simplifying it you mean power running game when its called for I'm game. Otherwise why change the complexity? If new players added have a hell of a time learning it, what does that say about opposing defenders trying to break down film? Dumb it down so it's easier to plan a defense against?
  20. Snake Eyes

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    Welker seemed to jump right in after having 1 offseason in the offense, same with Moss. Crumpler, Gronk, and Ahern also took to it very quickly, as did Woodhead.

    Is the problem the offense or player selection? I think the offense is just fine with the guys we have now.
  21. Avenger

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    I think it is a bit easier for TEs, with Welker they saw exactly what they wanted and traded for him, and Moss was a one trick pony, but oh what a trick it was! Brady has also lauded Moss's football intelligence. RBs also runa a simplified root tree.
  22. Fencer

    Fencer Rookie

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    Fair enough. But a tune-up is indeed needed, as a couple of Super Bowl losses demonstrate.

    Losing two Super Bowls is a "first-class kind of problem" to have -- still, one wants to do better. What's more, it's important to always improve, as the opposition isn't standing still.
  23. Deus Irae

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    The idea that the Super Bowl losses demonstrated that a tune up is needed is ludicrous.
  24. NEP4Life

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  25. BradyManny

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    I was the one who introduced the phrase tune-up so I feel the need to defend it.

    All my point was intending to say was that all that was missing from this offense was an outside receiver - and McDaniels ability to work that into the offense. We have Lloyd, we have Gaffney, maybe we have Stallworth - and we have McD and Tom Brady spending a full offseason adding this new element to our offense - I really don't see how anyone could be concerned about the offense at this point.

    Points are hard to come by in Super Bowls against teams with good defenses. So I agree with your larger point that we can't read into the losses too much when it comes to the offense.
  26. Deus Irae

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    I probably should have been more clear. I was referring to the idea of a tuneup with regards to simplifying the offense. As you probably know, I've been on the "They need a middle-deep" receiver bandwagon ever since Moss was traded away, so I certainly don't disagree with your point about getting that type of receiver.

    My apologies for any confusion caused by that earlier post.
    Last edited: May 13, 2012
  27. PrairiePat

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    I also posted in the previous thread on this topic; it's ridiculous to change a juggernaut-level offense because a few undisciplined prima donna WRs can't figure it out.

    That being said, there should probably be some thought given to how to plug in pieces to the offense when the injury bug makes its annual appearance. I'm sure this has all been figured out already, but if we have to plug in new WR, RB or TE pieces during the season, there needs to be a reduced set of plays the new guy(s) can run reliably while working up to mastery of the entire offense.

    I think 85 is still at this level of play, unfortunately. :rolleyes:

    Also, if we need Hoyer or Mallett during the season, it'll be important to know which pieces of the offense can still be run effectively, I'd hope that most of it would be available with Hoyer, we'll see how Mallett looks during preseason.
  28. BradyManny

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    No problem - no confusion caused. I know that you and I are pretty much on the same page when it comes to this offense, and have been for some time, but I felt the need to clarify my own statements nonetheless.
  29. Snake Eyes

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    It's not just him, TFB commented that it was immediately apparent that Deion Branch was going to be special, that the routes he was running based on what the defense was doing were exceptional, and the Pats even made those custom Branch routes parts of the playbook.

    The 'problem' isn't the offense, the problem is Joey Galloway, Chad Jackson, Taylor Price, Ocho, Brandon Tate, etc.
  30. ctpatsfan77

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    How is it easier for them, when they also have to learn blocking assignments? :confused:
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