Simple Question: Is the LB Core Good Enough to Win?

[patsfan55]

Guys, the Pats really had one glaring weakness last year on defense: the inability to cover TE's and slot receivers on the short underneath stuff. They couldn't make a third down stop. So, let's look at the two big additions on defense:

The best coverage LB in the NFL. A suberb "coverage" safety prospect drafted in the first round -- a guy whose specialty is covering the slot as a free safety or nickle corner.

we werent spectacular at holding the edge either
which is why i wanted lamar woodley in this draft
willie was one of the best ive ever seen at containing the outside run,
i dont know how good adalius is at it, but colvin gets sucked in almost every play, and vrabel has had trouble gettin off the block the last couple yrs

 

[spacecrime]

I
The LB core is absolutely good enough to win.
The LB corps, though, still has plenty of question marks.

Of course!

 

[VJCPatriot]

Guys, the Pats really had one glaring weakness last year on defense: the inability to cover TE's and slot receivers on the short underneath stuff. They couldn't make a third down stop. So, let's look at the two big additions on defense:

The best coverage LB in the NFL. A suberb "coverage" safety prospect drafted in the first round -- a guy whose specialty is covering the slot as a free safety or nickle corner.

Thank you for being the only one to notice this after the "wringing of hands" over the "linebacker" issue.

We just added Adalius Thomas, a seasoned pro bowler LB to our backfield who can play any of the 4 linebacker positions as well as drop into coverage to handle the tight end, and yet people still aren't happy. I guess you can't please everyone, and the point is that it's not BB's job to please the fans. It's his job to build teams that can win championships.

Brady, Moss, Stallworth, Maroney, and company are going to put up ridiculous points in 2007. Remember Montana to Rice and Taylor? Well now Brady has the targets to throw to in Moss and Stallworth. And it's gonna be damn exciting to watch. The defense will have to play its part next season, but they won't have to pull the whole load for this team to win. The real question is can this team remain healthy before its postseason run. If the Pats stay healthy I have no doubts we have a Superbowl caliber roster. And that's not something I was prepared to say last year with the awful receiving corps we fielded. The Pats as they now stand are more complete than ever.

No they did not expend 1st round picks on linebackers to placate the masses. Instead they took a cover safety to address their only significant weakness, obtained TWO receivers with draft picks, one of whom is arguably one of the best wide receivers of all time, the other who will be a capable return man and possession receiver. The rest of the draft was gravy and who knows the Pats may hit on some late round gems or udfas as they did with Pierre Woods last year or TBC in years prior. No team, even a superbowl champion is without some warts, but to complain over lack of depth at one position when we have assembled the most talented New England unit since... ever. Well it blows my mind.

You can acquire depth in free agency, that's what it's for. Football doesn't start tomorrow. We haven't even gotten into June 1st cuts and the Pats always scoop a few good veterans during that time. Let's not push the panic button yet folks. Let's take a deep breath, relax, and PRETEND just for a moment that the New England personnel men might know a LITTLE bit more about building a football team than we do.

 

[hwc]

The thing people are overlooking. We lost an ILB (Seau), had another playing hurt (Bruschi), and lost both starting safeties (Harrison and Wilson). When you lose that much up the middle of the field, you are going to have a fall-off. Plus, the Chinese firedrill in the defensive backfield forced the Pats to play cautious in the secondary, providing less help in the short middle of the field.

 

[scout]

We came within less of a minute of going to the Superbowl last year with our linebackers. This year, we have added one of the best lb in football. Did the Colts improve more then we did? Are we playing them at home in the playoffs next year for sure? San Diego is a very good team as is Denver. I like our chances better then any of the above mentioned.

 

[DW Toys]

We came within less of a minute of going to the Superbowl last year with our linebackers. This year, we have added one of the best lb in football. Did the Colts improve more then we did? Are we playing them at home in the playoffs next year for sure? San Diego is a very good team as is Denver. I like our chances better then any of the above mentioned.

Cousins,
I have a solution to the ILB situation. It is a solid move. I have a very simple do-able trade that has already been discussed. The Browns want Schaefer to switch to RT next year and will let Thomas play LG for a year. The problem is Schaefer can't play RT (or does not want to). We just drafted two OT's.

The Giants have called and asked the Browns to trade them Schaefer to put Diehl back to OG. Manning can't pass from his back.They did not pick up a single OT in the draft.

We did not address our ILB depth. OT Kaczur for ILB Audra Davis (104 tackles in 2006) and he knows our system because of Romeo. The Browns have a wealth at ILB. Then they would be happy to trade Schaefer to the Giants.
He can't play RT next year anyway.
DW Toys

 

[braveht]

When nearly all of your LBs are 30 years or older it should be a concern - last year was last year,Guys like Bruschi and Vrabel won't suddenly get faster,they may play steady as last year at best.

We possibly could have a catastrophe next year on defense when its a very realistic possibility that Bruschi,Harrison maybe even Vrabel hang it up,If we get to and win the Super Bowl it makes it even more likely that at least 2 of them are gone.

That is what is so disturbing on how we did not go for LB early and used it at #28 - Harris,Poz and Beason must not have been very good in BBs eyes but who knows why we didn't?

Maybe the FO knows for sure of a Patriots type LB getting free soon this year in FA,Thats all I can figure right now.

Maybe we will do a similar thing next year like sign a high profile LB like Thomas early in 2008 FA or rely on a rookie who we probably will select with the #1 pick

Our LBs are NOT old!! The minimum age for our LBs is 25-27, i.e. after their rookie contract. They need 3-4 years to do anything other than pass rush from OLB. You can't make the starters get younger by drafting 1st rounders and training them for 3-4 years. Better to let other teams have LBs, teach them, and let us watch for 4 years. Developing late rounders is cost-effective as they provide ST warriors and emergency depth.

Our drafts show that we can use early round RBs, TEs, OL, CBs , and S's in year 1 and 2. What they learned in NCAA plus raw talent pays off. The learning curve is slower for WR, 2-gap DL, and ILB.

 

[Jimke]

From a depth perspective our linebacking situation is a little scary.

I expect the Pats to have Alexander, Lua, Mays, Rodgers, Warren, and

Woods compete for three roster spots. If none of them can do the job,

they will add a veteran linebacker. Gardiner and Seau may be over their

injuries by the start of the season.

 

[jczxohn1]

No evaluation of the ILB position can be complete without factoring in the presence of Rodney Harrison. Even in 2004, when our ILB's were Bruschi and Johnson, Rodney played a critical role in supporting the run as well as coverage. His loss the last two seasons has definitely been apparent. Sanders showed some spirit filling in and may have some more upside, spelling and learning from Rodney, as well as Merriweather. Not too sure about Wilson. It's a contract year for him, if Asante gets signed, there may not be a fit for him.

 

[onegr8om]

I think the signing of AT ALONE would have put us over the top in the COLTS game. IF we had Adalius THEN, we'd probably have won the superbowl and that "collapse" doesn't happen.

I'm happy we've gone out and got the players we did NOW, so they have time to grow together as a team before the season and can start building the chemistry our Patriots teams are famous for.

A little Depth at LB would be nice, but i still think we're in better shape than most teams right now. Although i do still feel that either Seau or a similiar player will be added prior to training camp.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

I think the signing of AT ALONE would have put us over the top in the COLTS game. IF we had Adalius THEN, we'd probably have won the superbowl and that "collapse" doesn't happen.

I'm happy we've gone out and got the players we did NOW, so they have time to grow together as a team before the season and can start building the chemistry our Patriots teams are famous for.

A little Depth at LB would be nice, but i still think we're in better shape than most teams right now. Although i do still feel that either Seau or a similiar player will be added prior to training camp.

Straight up, homes. Unless of course AD had the flu that day :bricks:

PFnV

 

[brdmaverick]

simple answer: yes

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

I think the answer lies in the spelling of this thread title. The LB core is absolutely good enough to win. Thomas, Colvin, Vrabel and Bruschi is clearly a championship-caliber group of LBs. The LB corps, though, still has plenty of question marks. If any of the "core corps" misses significant time--and they're all 30+--I don't see how anybody could be confident with Woods or Alexander having to start for extended periods. (And I like both players.)

Paging Junior Seau, come in Mr Seau...

I'm suddenly having flashbacks of Donald Duck arguing with Chip & Dale over an apple core.

2006:
- Bruschi: played the entire season in a cast.
- Seau: IR after the Chicago game when his cane broke.
- Vrabel: hurt his back so he should have been released at the end of the season.
- Colvin: why is he still here after breaking his hip?
- TBC: JAG.
- Gardner: IR, never missed him.
- Alexander: JAG, why is he still here?
- Woods: Rookie, won the job as a UDFA - UDFA's suck.
- Mays: Rookie, won a Practice Squad slot and signed to the active roster as a UDFA - UDFA's suck.
- Izzo: has naked pictures of Bob Kraft.
- Don Davis: IR, doesn't he play Safety?

2007:
- Bruschi: Let's see if Bill Polian objects to wheel chairs before we write him off.
- Vrabel: Isn't he using a walker?
- Colvin: Turning 30 sucked for me too, he's doooooooooommmmmmed.
- Thomas: $35 mil down the drain.
- Alexander: Poor kid, thrown into the flame in an AFCCG, is he out of the burn unit yet?
- Woods: Despite having a head start in the Michigan 3-4 defense, and demonstrating a better understanding of the 3-4 scheme in Preseason last year then similar first year players, he's just another UDFA JAG, nowhere near as good a fit as the undersized linebackers passed over in the draft.
- Mays: UDFA/Practice Squad kids who win roster slots here on hustle and hard work are ugly and their mommies dress them funny.
- Rogers: 6th round draft picks never amount to anything in NE.
- Lua: 7th round draft picks never amount to anything in NE.
- Warren: UDFA's never amount to anything in NE.
- Seau: Unsigned, rehabbing, he sucked so much last season that Hollywood wants him to play "Hoover" in the remake of Animal House.
- Gardner: Unsigned, rehabbing, just another JAG even Herm Edwards couldn't turn into a pro-football player.
- Izzo: Should be our leading tackler since most of the LBs fans really want are about the same size and speed.

Solution: Let's go sign a Free Agent who every team in the NFL has passed on since Free Agency started.
Alternative Solution: Let's trade a starting player from a playoff team that missed the Superbowl by the narrowest of margins for a starter from a 4-12 team that finished 2006 strong on a 4-game losing streak.
Final Solution: Bring back Bobby Grier and Bill "I'm job hunting and can't be bothered with the Superbowl" Parcells for their uncanny linebacker drafting skills.

 

[chowder]

simple answer: yes

ditto. lol

 

[shatch62]

Vrabel, Colvin, Brushi, and Thomas are "slightly above average"?

Damn, an average set of starting linebackers must be pretty frickin' good.

Depth is an issue, but it just blows my mind when people say our starting linebackers are mediocre. Remember, last year when Vrabel moved inside, we didn't have much to take over the outside. Now, we have a Pro Bowl linebacker in Thomas.

Tedy is a warrior but he has clearly lost a step. Vrabel is one of the most underrated players in the league. He is -in my mind - a borderline Pro Bowl OLB but he is slightly above average ILB. Considering he can play both – above average – I love having him on the Pats but he is not a great ILB. Good, not Great. Colvin has his moments but only above average. Thomas is a Pro bowler.

So, the starting four is a slightly above average group of LBs.

I will be the first to admit that I love the young up and coming players (i.e. Demeco Ryans, Derrick Johnson, Ernie Sims, AJ Hawk) I would feel better about the group. If all 4 starters stay health for every game then the LBs will be fine but I just have a hard time believing 4 30+ LBs will all play 16 games.

 

[aluminum seats]

Right--I think that's the main point, which seems to be mostly agreed on here. "We're OK, unless..." And that's a little scary, as it is naturally somewhat more likely you'll see injuries with guys over 30. And while a healthy Seau-type adds depth, it's unlikely he'd be able to stay on the field all year.

What I would love to see (obviously) is a FA pick-up that offers the pleasant surprise of a Vrabel, as a few seasons back. I'd also like a pony. (Alright, scratch that joke, with this management team, you never know.)

 

[Pat_the_Patriot]

Analysis aside, bottom line, can the Pats win a championship with this group of linebackers, even assuming a veteran pickup? I suppose in one sense of course the answer is yes--the team is obviously loaded in a lot of areas, and will contend. I guess the better question might be will they. It became clear to me in the middle of last year that the LB core was becoming a weakness. Now, Bruschi & Vrabel & Co. are all a year older, and I'm just not sure that that softness in the middle won't hurt more than we think.

Simple answer: YES