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Sign the Beast(s) XXXI -- CB Contingency plans


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Funny how
Give me a list of CBs in the last decade that were drafted after pick 20 in the first round and became great players.

You will end up with a list of 2, maybe 3 players. All the elite corners were drafted very, very early which is where we rarely pick because we are so successful.

Well isnt bb a defensive genius? This is why u dont let cover corners go. He has flopped on the secondary and to look the other way is being a blind homer. Now we get to see more of this in the 2015 nfl draft. Broken record.
 
Because we actually draft consistently well and Seattle doesnt? They hit on Sherman, Chancellor and Wilson and since then had 2 aweful drafts with not a single starting caliber player in a row.

I am very tired of this myth.

What players in the secondary have we drafted consistently well?

The only player from the lob who was a first round pick was earl Thomas.

Kam Sherman browner and maxwell were all mid round guys/undrafted

There's a reason why bill had Togo out and get browner and Revis In free agency(trade for Talib). We suck at drafting them
 
i hope belichick doesnt waste the 1st round pick on a corner.
#bust
 

What I think McShay is saying there is basically that there is a lack of CBs who are obvious top-15 picks. That's true for a couple of reasons, the main one being Marcus Peters' draft stock falling after he was kicked off his college team.

What I don't think McShay is really referring to--or where I disagree with him, if I'm reading the statement wrong--is that I think there are a lot of good corners in this draft who have potential to be really good. With the possible exception of Trae Waynes after the combine he had, there's no 'can't miss' prospect... but then again, there very rarely is. Even the guys who eventually live up to the hype, like Haden and Peterson, rarely get anywhere close to it as a rookie. Then you have the other 'can't miss' top of the class prospects like Morris Claiborne and Dee Milliner. And I think Justin Gilbert's going to join that group too, because being the #8 pick aside, I'm not very high on him.

I don't believe the hype on corners when it speaks well of them, and I don't believe it in years like this one either. For a number of reasons, the main one being that no college corner is anywhere close to being a finished product, even relative to other positions. And since the 'can't miss' guy seems to be whatever corner played for a major conference team, came in 6'0" in the combine, and ran a sub-4.40 40, I'm inherently skeptical of any corner who gets that kind of billing. Half the time, they're being awarded that based on a deeply flawed criteria that doesn't speak to what they'll be doing in the pros. If I see a long corner who can consistently press at the LOS, can flip his hips smoothly and can get in and out of breaks quickly, I see a future outside starter. I don't care if he 'only' runs a 4.5 at the combine, as long as he isn't getting beaten on tape. That's why I like Peters so much, and why I was borderline happy that he ran the 40 that he did. If he runs a 40 time that's consistent with his game speed, he's probably a top-15 pick right now even with the character concerns. Since he didn't, there's a shot that he falls to us.

Basically, in general I think that worthy day-one starters at CB are extremely rare, so I don't see why the lack of one in this class would be a big deal. If everyone agrees that there isn't a day-one starter right now, then for once they're talking sensibly, because even the best CBs need time to develop. Best case scenario, you get guys who flash a lot of talent early but are inconsistent and have holes in their game. If you get Jason Verrett or Kyle Fuller, that's pretty much a win since it's unreasonable to expect more than that from a rookie corner.

So if we're looking at ceiling instead of plug and play potential, I'll go out on a limb and say that I think Marcus Peters is the best CB prospect of the past two years in terms of his on-the-field potential. He does have some obvious character concerns, considering that he got kicked off his college team, but FWIW Steve Sarkisian has been going to bat for him. And there's a cluster of guys following him who I don't think are as talented, but who could all become plus starters with proper coaching. But they absolutely do need coaching.

As far as what that means for the Pats - it means in 2015 our corners are probably going to be a weakness. Kinda sucks, but oh well, it is what it is. If they go and draft corners now, the impact should be felt this year--especially if they bite the bullet and take Peters, who can at least play right away IMO--but it should be more felt in 2016-2018.
 
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This. Kind of. He's not Revis, but who is? Dennard was playing close to CB1 caliber football before he got hurt imo. I'm sure Belichick will make some other moves, but if Dennard can come back 100% it will go a long way towards addressing the CB situation

And I haven't been following Dennard's situation in about a year it seems, so does anyone know his status and when/if he is expected to come back?
 
So if we're looking at ceiling instead of plug and play potential, I'll go out on a limb and say that I think Marcus Peters is the best CB prospect of the past two years in terms of his on-the-field potential. He does have some obvious character concerns, considering that he got kicked off his college team, but FWIW Steve Sarkisian has been going to bat for him. And there's a cluster of guys following him who I don't think are as talented, but who could all become plus starters with proper coaching. But they absolutely do need coaching.
Marcus Peters can choke his next coach on his own time, it won't be in New England however.

http://collegefootballtalk.nbcsport...-report-that-marcus-peters-choked-coach-bull/

Marcus Peters can take his temper tantrums elsewhere.
 
This. Kind of. He's not Revis, but who is? Dennard was playing close to CB1 caliber football before he got hurt imo. I'm sure Belichick will make some other moves, but if Dennard can come back 100% it will go a long way towards addressing the CB situation

And I haven't been following Dennard's situation in about a year it seems, so does anyone know his status and when/if he is expected to come back?

We know that he was injured and battling some shoulder issues, but there's also a lot of speculation that he fell out of favor with the coaches and had been taken over in the depth chart, which led to healthy scratches.

I think it's similar to the Dobson situation, where we just don't really know yet how much was due to injury, and how much was due to falling out of favor or just playing poorly. We do know that as of a few days ago, some here were speculating that Dennard could be cut. Of course that's changed now, and we're all hoping that he can replace the holes left by Revis and Browner.

Lots of unknowns with Dennard at the moment. I don't think we'll really know until training camp, as there's not much reason to cut him before then--although I do think they can save about 1 million vs. the cap with a cut.
 
Marcus Peters can choke his next coach on his own time, it won't be in New England however.

http://collegefootballtalk.nbcsport...-report-that-marcus-peters-choked-coach-bull/

Marcus Peters can take his temper tantrums elsewhere.

Did you read your own link? His former DC called that anonymous report out as ********, and that was a solid month-plus after he was kicked off the team. They could have easily let that pass without comment, but instead felt the need to aggressively call it out as crap despite the guy not even playing for them anymore.

Maybe the Pats won't draft him based on that. I'm not going to pretend to know how their draft board works. But if he's around at 32, that'll be the last time for a long time that we'll have an opportunity to draft a corner this good.
 
We know that he was injured and battling some shoulder issues, but there's also a lot of speculation that he fell out of favor with the coaches and had been taken over in the depth chart, which led to healthy scratches.

I think it's similar to the Dobson situation, where we just don't really know yet how much was due to injury, and how much was due to falling out of favor or just playing poorly. We do know that as of a few days ago, some here were speculating that Dennard could be cut. Of course that's changed now, and we're all hoping that he can replace the holes left by Revis and Browner.

Lots of unknowns with Dennard at the moment. I don't think we'll really know until training camp, as there's not much reason to cut him before then--although I do think they can save about 1 million vs. the cap with a cut.
Many thanks, although you really burst my bubble (Dobson comparison? Yikes) That's really too bad if he's fallen out of favor in addition to the injury problems.
 
Did you read your own link? His former DC called that anonymous report out as ********, and that was a solid month-plus after he was kicked off the team. They could have easily let that pass without comment, but instead felt the need to aggressively call it out as crap despite the guy not even playing for them anymore.

Maybe the Pats won't draft him based on that. I'm not going to pretend to know how their draft board works. But if he's around at 32, that'll be the last time for a long time that we'll have an opportunity to draft a corner this good.
Pimp your thugs elsewhere, like St Louis and head coach Jeff Fisher.
 
Pimp your thugs elsewhere, like St Louis and head coach Jeff Fisher.

I'm not really seeing any "pimping" of Peterson from him. I'm seeing a reasonably based argument that IF he falls to us at #32, it may be worth pondering since there may not be any other viable options for quite some time.

I think it's pretty much the same exact debate that we have every single year prior to the draft: "is player___X worth it due to character concerns?"
 
We know that he was injured and battling some shoulder issues, but there's also a lot of speculation that he fell out of favor with the coaches and had been taken over in the depth chart, which led to healthy scratches.

I think it's similar to the Dobson situation, where we just don't really know yet how much was due to injury, and how much was due to falling out of favor or just playing poorly. We do know that as of a few days ago, some here were speculating that Dennard could be cut. Of course that's changed now, and we're all hoping that he can replace the holes left by Revis and Browner.

Lots of unknowns with Dennard at the moment. I don't think we'll really know until training camp, as there's not much reason to cut him before then--although I do think they can save about 1 million vs. the cap with a cut.


I really wonder how much there is to support Dobson or Dennard falling out of favor with the coaches.

I'm certainly not disagreeing, but both players had legitimate injuries that could be devastating to their respective positions.

Both also played rather ineffectively, which in theory, is due to said injuries.

It's late a night, I may have had a beer, or 2, or 6, and maybe half a bottle of Khalua, but I just don't remember much substantial evidence backing them ever falling out of favor with the coaches outside of speculation that seemingly ignored the injuries they sustained and attempted to play on, which didn't exactly work. (Yes, I remember the reports of Dobson fighting with McDaniels which McDaniels denied to the grave)
 
I really wonder how much there is to support Dobson or Dennard falling out of favor with the coaches.

I'm certainly not disagreeing, but both players had legitimate injuries that could be devastating to their respective positions.

Both also played rather ineffectively, which in theory, is due to said injuries.

It's late a night, I may have had a beer, or 2, or 6, and maybe half a bottle of Khalua, but I just don't remember much substantial evidence backing them ever falling out of favor with the coaches outside of speculation that seemingly ignored the injuries they sustained and attempted to play on, which didn't exactly work. (Yes, I remember the reports of Dobson fighting with McDaniels which McDaniels denied to the grave)

Lots of reports and speculation from the beat writers and weekly inactive lists about them both being healthy scratches this year. They both practiced for long stretches, and then wouldn't play come Sunday.

As you mention, the injuries may have certainly added to that. In my opinion, they are both unknowns at this point. Either one could blossom or get traded/cut, and none of us would be surprised.
 
This crop of CBs coming out of the draft this year is week as hell, and in ideal circumstances they won't contribute consistently their first year. All the good F/As are gone. A trade is really the only option.
 
Lots of reports and speculation from the beat writers and weekly inactive lists about them both being healthy scratches this year. They both practiced for long stretches, and then wouldn't play come Sunday.

I agree that it was speculation, we really don't know, they practiced but may not have practiced as well as other guys.

I could also be making excuses as I'll simply admit I like both players for whatever reason.

Midway through 2013 I made a bet with my friend that Dobson and Thompkins would both be 1,000 yard receivers in year 2 and if they weren't I'd donate a dollar for every reception to charity (which I did, and fortunately/unfortunately at the same time it wasn't much).

As you mention, the injuries may have certainly added to that. In my opinion, they are both unknowns at this point. Either one could blossom or get traded/cut, and none of us would be surprised.

100% agree, anything could happen and they have a 0% guarantee to net us anything whether it's playtime or compensation on the market.
 
I agree that it was speculation, we really don't know, they practiced but may not have practiced as well as other guys.

I could also be making excuses as I'll simply admit I like both players for whatever reason.



100% agree, anything could happen and they have a 0% guarantee to net us anything whether it's playtime or compensation on the market.

Yeah, it's tough to know either way as to how much injuries may have contributed to their lack of playing time etc, especially Dennard who seemed to play well enough the first 2 years, but has been oft-injured only playing in a total of 29/48 games.
 
Him going to jail probably didn't help his status on Belichick's list.
 
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