Welcome to PatsFans.com

Shutdown

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Holy Diver, Apr 6, 2011.

  1. Holy Diver

    Holy Diver Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    10,800
    Likes Received:
    6
    Ratings:
    +6 / 0 / -0

    Has there ever been a government shutdown during wartime...EXCUSE ME.... during multiple wars time?
  2. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    40,845
    Likes Received:
    90
    Ratings:
    +151 / 3 / -19

    The military will continue.. and the fat cats who work in the Capitol will have some time to do some day trading, catch some porno, take their mistresses to lunch or maybe some golf.. Issa, Kerry and the rest of uber rich will have plenty of time to work their portfolio's or take a nice trip.

    Did you ever think why tax increases for the most wealthy will never go anywhere, talk about conflict of interest. How can you ever expect any serious reform of the tax code, when half of out elected officials are millionaires..
  3. Nikolai

    Nikolai Football Atheist PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2009
    Messages:
    5,730
    Likes Received:
    147
    Ratings:
    +292 / 0 / -1

    #54 Jersey

    Yep, the military will go on. The whole "troops won't get paid/military will shut down" shtick being rolled out is all about scaring Republicans into pressuring their reps into accepting a deal.

    I don't always pay attention to this kind of stuff so I don't know, but why didn't the Dems just push a budget through in October?
  4. blackglass3

    blackglass3 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2007
    Messages:
    4,782
    Likes Received:
    17
    Ratings:
    +20 / 0 / -1

    #12 Jersey

    I do like being in the Air Force and serving my country. However, I do find it irksome that they are not going to be able to pay me (according to what everyone is saying) but will still be able to send me to Afghanistan at the end of the month. It would be funny if it wasn't pathetic how dirty both sides are willing to play to "win" this argument.
  5. reflexblue

    reflexblue PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2006
    Messages:
    17,242
    Likes Received:
    13
    Ratings:
    +20 / 3 / -0

    #91 Jersey

    And they pay themselves also, they don't miss a check.
  6. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2005
    Messages:
    24,585
    Likes Received:
    62
    Ratings:
    +111 / 7 / -10

    Well during previous shutdowns Reagan and Clinton made sure the troops got paid, Obama has decided to not pay the troops and hold them hostage, this is despicable.

    M Bachman has said she will not accept her pay during any shutdown and will donate it to military families, props for her.
  7. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

    Mrs.PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2009
    Messages:
    15,230
    Likes Received:
    225
    Ratings:
    +315 / 7 / -3

    #12 Jersey

    No, 13, what's despicable is you and your kind saying that's what he's decided.

    The troops will be paid. No one's ever said the troops won't be paid. They just won't be paid on time.

    That's what happens during a shut down. Everyone knows that's what happens during a shut down.

    Well, maybe everyone but those Tea Parties who are demonstrating here in DC - you know the ones. The ones shouting, at the top of their lungs, "SHUT IT DOWN. SHUT IT DOWN. SHUT IT DOWN."

    I thought she said she would donate it to a military non-profit. Got a link?

    Sarah Palin, on the other hand, is just dying for a shut down. She's been tweeting so all day.
  8. reflexblue

    reflexblue PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2006
    Messages:
    17,242
    Likes Received:
    13
    Ratings:
    +20 / 3 / -0

    #91 Jersey

    Maybe she should spend it on some history classes.
  9. blackglass3

    blackglass3 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2007
    Messages:
    4,782
    Likes Received:
    17
    Ratings:
    +20 / 0 / -1

    #12 Jersey

    Yes, I agree. Even though I tend to lean right, I never had that burning Tea Party like haterd of him. However, this is just disgusting. I'd rather he just came out and said "I don't give a sh!t what happens to the troops and their families so long as they keep doing what I tell them" then beat around the bush.

    Not to derail the thread, but it is honestly at the point where I think the Republicans can win 2012 with their eyes shut. As long as the person nominated isn't A) sacrificing first borns during a televised debate and B) Sarah Palin, they should run away with it.
  10. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2005
    Messages:
    24,585
    Likes Received:
    62
    Ratings:
    +111 / 7 / -10


    From Robert Obama's Sec of Defense addressing troops in Bhagdad.

    Gates Explains Military Pay During Shutdown to Troops in Baghdad During What Is Likely his Last Visit to Iraq - Political Punch


    from Huff post:



    From the Navy Times:


    BTW I don't appreciate the personal attack when you haven't bothered to look up the facts.


    Enlisted people with families don't make a lot of $$$ this isn't fair to them and their kids. Neither Clinton or Reagan did such a despicable thing.
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2011
  11. blackglass3

    blackglass3 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2007
    Messages:
    4,782
    Likes Received:
    17
    Ratings:
    +20 / 0 / -1

    #12 Jersey

    I am not trying to start an argument with you because A) you are much more well read in politics than I am and B) you'd wipe the floor with me and I would have to start pointing out grammatical mistakes you make just to semi-look like I know what the hell I am talking about.

    But, unless the creditors are going to accept my "I'll pay you when the gov't pays me", I am going to have to choose between my credit taking a hit and my family going hungry; all while trying to stay alive in Kabul. I know people get laid off all the time, but one of the trade offs from the lower pay of the military is supposed to be not having to worry about waking up one day and not having a paycheck. Also, a person laid off can go look for another job...I don't get that option; I'll be at work Monday morning or be in pretty big trouble.
  12. The Brandon Five

    The Brandon Five Rookie

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2010
    Messages:
    6,238
    Likes Received:
    39
    Ratings:
    +87 / 0 / -1

    #75 Jersey

    I guess he's not worried about the military vote in 2012...not that they actually get to vote anymore.

    Federal budget showdown: Obama, Reid and Boehner talk | Reno Gazette-Journal | rgj.com
  13. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2005
    Messages:
    24,585
    Likes Received:
    62
    Ratings:
    +111 / 7 / -10


    This sort of attack on the military is new during previous gov shutdowns (during Reagan and Clinton administrations) military pay was delivered on time, no delays.

    Obama is using the military as a political prop which is despicable.
  14. reflexblue

    reflexblue PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2006
    Messages:
    17,242
    Likes Received:
    13
    Ratings:
    +20 / 3 / -0

    #91 Jersey

    Do you have proof of this or is this your opinion. I thought the same thing hapened under clinton.
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2011
  15. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2005
    Messages:
    24,585
    Likes Received:
    62
    Ratings:
    +111 / 7 / -10


    If you want to disprove what have said please feel free to produce a link. Obama is choosing to do this Neither Reagan nor Clinton delayed pay to people risking their lives in the military and their families.

    This is no different than withholding SS payments. Difference is Obama and his crew despise the military but don't want to lose the votes of seniors since they are planning to scare them over the Ryan roadmap.
  16. reflexblue

    reflexblue PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2006
    Messages:
    17,242
    Likes Received:
    13
    Ratings:
    +20 / 3 / -0

    #91 Jersey

    no you posted it you prove it. WTF. I don't know for sure one way or the other, but unless you prove what you said i think we can assume that your making it up.
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2011
  17. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2005
    Messages:
    24,585
    Likes Received:
    62
    Ratings:
    +111 / 7 / -10

  18. Nikolai

    Nikolai Football Atheist PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2009
    Messages:
    5,730
    Likes Received:
    147
    Ratings:
    +292 / 0 / -1

    #54 Jersey

    Yeah, I've got to do a little retraction on my first statement.

    According to SECDEF

    Military families worry about looming shutdown - Forbes.com

    Defense.gov News Release: Deputy Secretary of Defense William J. Lynn III Message to DOD Workforce on Potential Government Shutdown

    So the troops will get paid, but not on time, eh?

    I think Blackglass has said it well. This is not to mention that you don't want a soldier out there on patrol wondering if his wife is going to be able to buy gas to go to work, feed the kids, etc.

    Dumb move if they go through with it. Which party wants to accept the responsibility for delaying paychecks to the guys putting their lives on the line in Afghanistan?
  19. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

    Mrs.PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2009
    Messages:
    15,230
    Likes Received:
    225
    Ratings:
    +315 / 7 / -3

    #12 Jersey

    What government shutdown under Reagan are you talking about, 13?

    I'm only aware of two shutdowns - one of them lasted all of 4 hours - hardly enough time to hold back a paycheck on anyone, military or otherwise. And the second was over within one day. As far as I know there was no plan to assure the military uninterrupted paychecks during either - fortunately neither of them lasted long enough for it to matter.

    •1981: President Reagan vetoed a continuing resolution and 400,000 Federal employees were sent home at lunch and told not to come back. A few hours later, President Reagan signed a new version of the continuing resolution and the workers were back at work the next morning.

    •1984: With no approved budget, 500,000 federal workers were sent home. An emergency spending bill has them all back at work the next day.


    Government Shutdowns – What is a Government Shutdown and What are the Effects of a Government Shutdown?

    I think you're trying to give Reagan credit when credit is not due here.

    As for the shutdown under Clinton, yes, he did sign emergency action which made sure that the military did not have delayed checks. Which is something Obama should also do.

    I do not object to anyone telling the truth or giving their opinions. If all anyone said was, "Cripes, I sure hope Obama makes sure the military gets paid on time," I'd be the first one cheering them on - but when it's portrayed as "the troops will not get paid" as in "ever" not "the troops will not get paid until later," that's a deliberate bit of misinformation that's being given - and I find it objectionable. It's also wrong to say, "Reagan never did this," when Reagan's shutdown did not last long enough for it to matter. For all we know this shutdown, should it occur, will not last that long either.

    And as a final reminder - it takes two sides to come to a showdown, just as it takes two sides to come to an agreement. The Republicans are not blameless here - not by a longshot.
  20. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

    Mrs.PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2009
    Messages:
    15,230
    Likes Received:
    225
    Ratings:
    +315 / 7 / -3

    #12 Jersey

    Ah, flattery.....it'll get you far in this world. :)

    And I sympathize with you. We recently had a friend of my son's staying with us who was stationed here in Va. He's got a wife and two kids and I know, firsthand, how hard he struggles to provide for all of them. I hate to think of him or anyone else going without a paycheck for any period of time. I sincerely hope that the shutdown is either averted or arrangements are made for military personnel to be exempt from missing a check. I've gone through periods of time where I did not get a pay check and it was not easy to find money to feed my kids or pay my mortgage - there's no way I want anyone else, especially someone who is fighting for our country, to go through that.

    That being said, I still take exception to the way it's being presented, both here and elsewhere. The bit about "Reagan made sure this didn't happen" is just so much bullsh!t, yanno? That played out just fine and it never became an issue because it was resolved quickly - which is still a possibility here, too. Nothing is over until it is over - and the kind of hysteria being bandied about, the "oh no, the troops aren't considered essential...oh, no, the troops aren't going to get paid," with the convenient "leave off" of "until later," is just rabble rousing and panic inducing and that's exactly what it's meant to do.

    So, no argument - just good wishes and a gentle reminder to always complete a true sentence one must always follow it up with the remainder of the truth.

    :)

Share This Page

unset ($sidebar_block_show); ?>