Shutdown Corner

[Pats726]

There's absolutely no reason to think any of this year's CBs will ever be better than Samuel, who started out playing poorly, but really came on in the second half of the year and the playoffs and was pretty much a shutdown corner.

I am not sure the staff is as high on Samuel as you are. Shutdown corner?? I think obviosuly if they go CB..they are not that high on him...or Hobbs even.I may agree. I like Samuel or Hobbs, but I think it remains to be seen who the starters are.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

nfl.com's Kirwan has Hill still on the board at 21, Cromartie going at 19, and the Pats picking Carpenter.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/story/9392296

I still don't know what's up with the sudden fan salivation over Hill, given that as late as last week people were thinking maybe second round for the guy. I think it's because BB has shown some interest - either real or smokescreen.

He is fast, in terms of straight-line speed. That means he's a shutdown corner if he's covering Bethel Johnson. If he's covering a guy who runs crisp routes, ehhh not so much. Seriously, I'm not trashing the guy, I just think right now he's a diamond in the rough.

On the subject of relative speed, Hill ran a 4.35. Cromartie came in "slow" for a CB, at 4.51. That's why I said there is a speed difference there, but the height (Cromartie, 6'2 1/8", Hill 5'9 5/8") more than makes up for it.

So much for the measurables. I do think both will end up starting in the NFL, but Cromartie is ready now, and has less wash-out potential. I see Hill as more of a gamble (although as I said, I was pretty taken with him early on.)

PFnV

 

[Pats726]

On the subject of relative speed, Hill ran a 4.35. Cromartie came in "slow" for a CB, at 4.51. That's why I said there is a speed difference there, but the height (Cromartie, 6'2 1/8", Hill 5'9 5/8") more than makes up for it.
PFnV

He also has long arms and is really good at anticipating routes...Senior Bowl..supposedly he stuck with receivers who could not shake him..I know I agree, is it a cover?? Are they really wishing to go after Marshall??

 

[PatsFanInVa]

I don't know, and I don't know where Marshall projects. There's a Pats Fresno State connection (I forget what,) and the Pats are billed as needy in the secondary, so voila - instant Marshall connection.

The thing to remember is, none of this comes from the NE front office, and if it does, it's a lie.

Saturday the Pats will announce they've drafted Diet Pepsi Machine or somebody.

PFnV

 

[dhamz]

The closest you'll get to a shutdown corner is if you trade whatever it takes to get Champ Bailey. He's the closest there is and he actually was beaten deep more in 2004 than any CB according to an SI article I read prior to last year.

They are extinct.

If the question is about a shutdown guy in the draft or in FA, it is a waste of time. There are none and even if they were we aren't getting 1 at 21 or by trading up. A guy like that goes top 5 and if he is a FA he probably gets Seymour $.

If the question is do we need to upgrade at CB, that is a totally different question. I think it is a spot that could stand to be upgraded but is not a gaping hole like we have at WR and LB right now.

 

[Brarrell]

The closest you'll get to a shutdown corner is if you trade whatever it takes to get Champ Bailey. He's the closest there is and he actually was beaten deep more in 2004 than any CB according to an SI article I read prior to last year.

They are extinct.

If the question is about a shutdown guy in the draft or in FA, it is a waste of time. There are none and even if they were we aren't getting 1 at 21 or by trading up. A guy like that goes top 5 and if he is a FA he probably gets Seymour $.

If the question is do we need to upgrade at QB, that is a totally different question. I think it is a spot that could stand to be upgraded but is not a gaping hole like we have at WR and LB right now.

Totally agree and the thing is Bailey will live off of the Brady interception for years and IMO he is a fraud. Shutdown corners they don't exsist if a team throws a 4 or 5 reciever set so you have one CB that has great cover skills so what you still have 4 other guys you have to cover. Thats why I think the Pats going front 7 on D who I'm not sure but it will be a front 7 player.

 

[dhamz]

The classic quote about the value (or lack there of) to a shutdown corner was by BB himself to Peter King prior to the Colts game when asked about the absence of Ty Law. It was something like No one guy is going to win for you, last week Bailey shut out Harrison and they had 400 yards and 35 points at the half.

 

[AzPatsFan]

Academic discussions

Cromartie's one game carreer has to be of some concern. I pointed out the weaknesses in Hills game in another post. If all you definition of a "shutdown" corner is coverage, than Kelly Jennings is right up there, and actually better in some respects than Tye Hill. He is jsut as fast and nimble. He is slightly taller than Hill but not as muscular. He was a a WR and can catch. Hill only has 5 INTs in his career so he must be a stone hands.


Of course this discussion is all academic.

Kelly can't run force either, so neither one of these guys would interest Bill

Don't you remember his famous quote " ... don't give me a defender who can't tackle. What would I do with him?"

 

[PatsFanInVa]

Az, played in 25 games, but point taken... and the more I look, the more I see people saying both that Cromartie's the risk and Hill's the blue chip, and vice versa. Then there's Jimmy Williams if you want a mouthy guy who really, really, really likes to hit. A Safety in CB clothing?

Again, I like that notion, but don't like the lack of discipline. I'll stick with Cromagnon with Tyed Hands a close second (apologies for the nearly irrelevant nicknames, but I'm getting pre-draft punchy. Tyed Hands fits at least.)

PFnV