Shut up about Spygate!

[the Patriot]

My God, this has gone way to far. You can't punish somebody for something and then decide your gonna punish them some more later on. The Patriots filmed some sidelines and possibly practices. Big Whoop! I remember the Dolphins doing something similar last year and that disapeared within a week. They shut out Tom Brady that game, how often does that happen? Sportswriters like Easterbrook can kiss my ass. It's their constant nagging that is turning this into a huge incident. The media coverage is ridiculous. You would have thought that we broke into a hotel somewhere.

I like Roger Goodell. The guy is covering our backs and for good reason. Because every team has a closet full of skeletons and it's not fair to single out only one. I wish he would just say what he's thinking to the press, "Listen you idiots. They will always be juicing and they will always be trying to steal eachothers signals and if you don't like that then go watch tennis."

Seriosly, who the hell is this Senator Arlen Specter? I know how concerned he probably is about proper justice in professional sports but perhaps he'd allow an investigation of his personal life. I kid you not, this guy tried to pass a bill that would "authorize warrentless surveillance under presidential authority" of US citizens. I'm sorry Senator, but I believe that's against the fourth ammendment, therefore unconstitutional and unlawful. I think somebody has his own Spygate to worry about.

 

[Dojo Chargerfan]

I find it amusing that Specter is going after the Patriots so hard. I don't blame the media for following this but coming from a front office of a state makes it a much bigger deal. If Walsh has more than the walk through and something else comes out then the Patriots need to get punished for a new accusation. I really don't consider this another Spygate. I just don't see it ending very well for the Pats and BB. The best that could happen is that nothing comes out of it and the worst is that BB is suspended for a year or is fired.
The thing is, I'm not rooting in any direction, I just want to see the facts when they come out. If Walsh has these walkthroughs and practices that was said then it's going to be TERRIBLE for the Pats. I'm talking about asterisk's here. This is something that is POSSIBLE. Very possible. But I can't imagine being in the same shoes as you guys though. As a rival I feel for you as fans but have no pity on people who legitimately cheat. And, yes, I feel that taping a Superbowl walkthrough IS cheating.
I just want to see what happens. Until then I'm keeping my mind open in both directions.

 

[Hardboiled]

I wouldn't say Goodell is on anyone's side.

I did notice his language soften. At the SB, he mentioned a HC waving at the camera on one of the tapes. He talked about how Parcells said teams need to change signals all the time. He stayed on his the penalty "sent a message" routine.

I didn't hear any of the "unprecedented" or how "long standing" rules about "fair play" were broken. He was so dramatic last September. I think after his tough guy fine and penalty he and his crew got nervous that they overdid it and were opening up a can of worms.

The whole story about how Jets and teams film everywhere with permission made SpyGate such a joke and I think the league knew they overdid it. At first it was so clear - The Pats broke a clear rule. That's all the media repeated. Then the NFLcomes out with fuzzy guidelines explaining the Jets filming that don't make sense in their earlier outrage.

 

[[email protected]]

I like Roger Goodell. The guy is covering our backs and for good reason. Because every team has a closet full of skeletons and it's not fair to single out only one.

Goodell caused this whole thing, how is that he is one of the good guys now. Not to mention that it seems one team has been singled out. The Pats have already paid the price, I say let's get it all out. I will take my chances that Belli did nothing worse than Dungy or Mangini. I say lets get Teddy a bottle of Chivas, the NFL directory, and let's go nuclear. I would love to see
- Bill Polian sitting in from of Teddy denying piped in noise.
- Mangini denying tampering with Branch.
- Shannahan denying tampering with Steve Young.
- Bring Carmen Policy back to review the niners cap strategy.

Someone has to explain to me how tampering is not a much worse offense than filming? I don't get it

 

[BJ_McWild]

I think the Pats should go nuclear on the other teams about any dirt they may have if this thing goes one week longer.

 

[MiChargers]

I think the Pats should go nuclear on the other teams about any dirt they may have if this thing goes one week longer.

And just what "dirt" would they have? Personally, I wouldnt care. I think these matters should be brought out....across the board. If the comish knows of activity that's illegal or inappropriate, it should be handled.

 

[Gunnails]

Goodell caused this whole thing, how is that he is one of the good guys now. Not to mention that it seems one team has been singled out. The Pats have already paid the price, I say let's get it all out. I will take my chances that Belli did nothing worse than Dungy or Mangini. I say lets get Teddy a bottle of Chivas, the NFL directory, and let's go nuclear. I would love to see
- Bill Polian sitting in from of Teddy denying piped in noise.
- Mangini denying tampering with Branch.
- Shannahan denying tampering with Steve Young.
- Bring Carmen Policy back to review the niners cap strategy.

Someone has to explain to me how tampering is not a much worse offense than filming? I don't get it

=====================================

I agree 100%.

I don't know, maybe as time passes every one will forget about Spy Gate and it will just go away, just be something to rib Pat fans about, but maybe it just won't go away.

I think a full an open accounting on to what is going on and what has gone on is needed to set the average Joe at ease as far as cheating and the integrity of the league.

Good or bad I want to hear about it, then move on with measures installed to prevent this from happening again in the future.

The Patriots are not alone in this, they did not invent cheating, this could go league wide, it would have too.

 

[Dojo Chargerfan]

I think the Pats should go nuclear on the other teams about any dirt they may have if this thing goes one week longer.

I think it should be fair across the board. If BB knows something about another team then he should also spill the beans. We like to think football is on an even playing field but lately it seems like the coach that knows how to cheat without getting caught the best will win. Now, I know there's always going to be some sort of cheating but I know I would be mad if another team took my playbook by recording practices. Practice is where the games are won or lost. If I knew what a team does in certain situations because that's how they practiced for it then they have a MAJOR advantage. I want my cheaten subtly done, not so much as to completely change an outcome of a game.

That's why if BB has proof that any other team cheats then that team should be punished also.

 

[Hardboiled]

And just what "dirt" would they have?

It's been long rumored that part of the tapes that the Pats sent to Goodell's office after the fine/penalty contained abudent evidence of the same or similar things going on against the Patriots. That would fuel speculation about the destroying of the tapes.

To give you more background, last year the Dolphins boasted that they had obtained clear audio tapes of Brady's calls at the line. It was never explained where the sounds were recorded from, but it's generally thought that teams mic their lineman and record it for future use. It was unclear if the Dolphins had the recording from previous game or from another team. The Patriots filed a complaint with league and the league said to forget it. John Clayton wrote about it and basically said stop complaining, teams steal signs all the time and it's part of the game.

Now if the Dolphins were found quilty of doing it, I would think the fine/penalty imposed on the Dolphins in the ballpark of (or the same as) the Patriots would be outragous. Just like I think the Patriots penalty was outragous. There were numerous ways of dealing with it without the way the NFL handled it. I don't think Goodell knew what he was doing and was irritated by BB's response to him and had the power to stick it to the team.

 

[Dojo Chargerfan]

It's been long rumored that part of the tapes that the Pats sent to Goodell's office after the fine/penalty contained abudent evidence of the same or similar things going on against the Patriots. That would fuel speculation about the destroying of the tapes.

To give you more background, last year the Dolphins boasted that they had obtained clear audio tapes of Brady's calls at the line. It was never explained where the sounds were recorded from, but it's generally thought that teams mic their lineman and record it for future use. It was unclear if the Dolphins had the recording from previous game or from another team. The Patriots filed a complaint with league and the league said to forget it. John Clayton wrote about it and basically said stop complaining, teams steal signs all the time and it's part of the game.

Now if the Dolphins were found quilty of doing it, I would think the fine/penalty imposed on the Dolphins in the ballpark of (or the same as) the Patriots would be outragous. Just like I think the Patriots penalty was outragous. There were numerous ways of dealing with it without the way the NFL handled it. I don't think Goodell knew what he was doing and was irritated by BB's response to him and had the power to stick it to the team.

now THAT's the kind of stuff I would have liked to have seen released!!!

 

[Hardboiled]

now THAT's the kind of stuff I would have liked to have seen released!!!

Dojo, I think you're missing something in all of this. Taping goes on all the time. The Pats were penaltized for doing it...from the sidelines.

I think the evidence that Pats presented along with their tapes (if the rumors are true) was as unexciting as Goodell recently called the Pats taping of (multiple) coaches giving signals (at the same time) and then panning up to the scoreboard for the down and yardage information. Rinse and then repeat.

So if the Pats did include evidence of other teams video work, it would be very dull.

Try to make sense of the following:

From the Boston Globe:

"It is not uncommon for visiting team video crews to request permission to shoot coaching video from both upper end zone positions," spokesman Greg Aiello wrote in an email. "Home clubs must provide visiting clubs with equal vantage points for the taping of games. Teams typically shoot coaching video from one upper 50-yard line location and one upper end zone location, but there are no restrictions on shooting from both upper end zone positions as long as the opportunity is provided to both teams. No permission is needed from the league office."

Compare that to the hysteria of p 105 of the rulebook and the 2006 "memo."

I wonder what kind of calls the league received after the Pats Penalty. "What kind of taping can we do?" "Can we still tape coaches?" "We can?" "Good." "Just not from the sidelines?" "Ok." "You reemed the Patriots for that?" HA! They should have just done side contracts with Brady, Moss and Seymour just like the Broncos and 49ers! HA!

 

[[email protected]]

I think the Pats should go nuclear on the other teams about any dirt they may have if this thing goes one week longer.

Not the Pats job to turn them in, there has been enough teams fined for different things over the years to call in each of those teams to testify. Since it seems that only a rumor is required as proof with the Pats, I am sure it can't be too difficult to find rumors on every other team. Call them all in and get them on the record and then wait for the Walshes from all over league to come out of the woodwork. Get it all on the tables and lets see how the Pats compare to the rest.
I wonder if it would be worth while to get a petition to Teddy or Kerry, not asking for them cover anything up, but to ensure the rest of the league is equally investigated.

I am astounded that people think filming is worse than salary cap monkey business or tampering. Where is the out rage to put an * next to the niners titles? They were proven guilty.

Mr Goodell, you created this monster, great work.

 

[the Patriot]

And just what "dirt" would they have? Personally, I wouldnt care. I think these matters should be brought out....across the board. If the comish knows of activity that's illegal or inappropriate, it should be handled.

I think they might trade tapes with other teams. There could be a whole system going on. Why else would the Patriots be accused of filming the Lions and Packers of all teams unless one of their rivals had something for us?

 

[Joker]

This is a pretty incredible thread....outsider Charger fans spouting off from on high on the terribleness of a sideline camera when one of their star linebackers has been caught red handed using performance enhancing,ILLEGAL STEROIDS, which directly IMPACTED an entire SEASON of San Diego games to the ILLEGAL DETRIMENT of all the other teams they played.

Seems SD fans like to talk out of both sides of their mouths.

 

[the Patriot]

This is a pretty incredible thread....outsider Charger fans spouting off from on high on the terribleness of a sideline camera when one of their star linebackers has been caught red handed using performance enhancing,ILLEGAL STEROIDS, which directly IMPACTED an entire SEASON of San Diego games to the ILLEGAL DETRIMENT of all the other teams they played.

Seems SD fans like to talk out of both sides of their mouths.

Tell me about it. Every time the Patriots win a game, it's an NFL conspiracy.

 

[Bella*chick]

now THAT's the kind of stuff I would have liked to have seen released!!!

I wonder if, as a Chargers fan, you are aware of the stories of Mike Shanahan's Broncos taping Charger practices. There was a story on that posted here many moons ago.

This stuff is out there, but there has been no outrage until the Patriot story. That's why so many of us are enraged with the double standard.

 

[tombonneau]

What hasn't been brought up, is the question of is it even in the rulebook that you can't tape another team practicing? I'm honestly asking.

I can't imagine the rulebook spelling out all the various instances of what a team can't do when a game is not being played.

If an opposing player mistakenly leaves a playbook in the visiting locker room, is it illegal for them to keep it?

Is it illegal to have someone in a hot air balloon above an opposing team's practice field, taking photos or videos?

I mean, you can see how this would go on and on.

So even if the Pats taped the walkthrough, if an opposing team is dumb enough to let someone with a video camera in the stands film, is that even illegal?

 

[blackglass3]

- Shannahan denying tampering with Steve Young.

Um, what?

123456789

 

[the Patriot]

What hasn't been brought up, is the question of is it even in the rulebook that you can't tape another team practicing? I'm honestly asking.

I can't imagine the rulebook spelling out all the various instances of what a team can't do when a game is not being played.

If an opposing player mistakenly leaves a playbook in the visiting locker room, is it illegal for them to keep it?

Is it illegal to have someone in a hot air balloon above an opposing team's practice field, taking photos or videos?

I mean, you can see how this would go on and on.

So even if the Pats taped the walkthrough, if an opposing team is dumb enough to let someone with a video camera in the stands film, is that even illegal?

The rules probably state that you can not use any methods that allow you to steal another team's strategems. I don't know but if this is such a big surprise why do coaches cover their mouths when they call plays?

 

[max]

This Spygate thing is likely to die out really soon.

The key is this guy Walsh. If he doesn't produce a tape, Goodell will be able to shut the door on this thing.

My guess is that Walsh has no tape, just blather.

But in the unlikely event that he has a tape, Specter will be all over it, and this thing will get really ugly.

The good thing is that we will all know soon. They are meeting next week.