Should we Trade UP for that player?

[mayoclinic]

Yeah they did trade up for Graham and Warren but only a couple spots. If memory serves me right, we moved up from 14 to 13 to get Warren, just so no one else tried to jump ahead of us.

They moved up from 32 to 21 to get Dan Graham in 2002.

Im talking a jets type move into the top 5 for Sanchez not a 1 spot move or a move into the mid 20s from 32.

I think a move into the top 5 is highly unlikely as long as we don't have a rookie salary scale. The contract cost would be prohibitive. Even in an uncapped year, I doubt BB would want to commit that kind of money to a rookie. It would mess up the salary structure of the team, something he is very careful to preserve.

But yes your right we have no idea what the pats might do come the draft, im going off our past history in that we have more of a tendancy to move down to acquire future picks. If we move into the top 10 i would try to Suh, not McClain.

Suh could go 1st, and will almost certainly go top 3 at this point. So we'd really have to move up, and the cost in terms of picks and contract would be exorbitant.

I believe Suh will enhance the play of the other 10 defensive players more than McClain would. Dont get me wrong i like McClain and if hes there from pick 8 to 15 i would try to trade for him in a heartbeat, but if im trying to get to picks 1-3, lets try to get Suh over McClain.

That's what I've been talking about, a trade up if McClain is available within about 10 picks of where we draft. That's within the Dan Graham trade up range for which there's precedent. If we end up picking low 20's then that would be anywhere after 10 or so. I just don't see BB making a leap to picks 1-3 like you suggest.

Suh is a rare DT who can apply pressure with his sheer ability and also has Ngata ability to move sideline to sideline and is very fast for his size. Did we all see him throwing McCoy around like a rag doll? Hes a beast, a guy that can create pressure on his own and he plays within the defensive system hes given, hes THAT GOOD. Of course im biased living in Omaha, but from listening to him here on local radio hes very humble, doesnt take anything for granted and is EXACTLY THE PERSONALITY THAT THIS TEAM NEEDS. You watch, whatever team gets him (cause hes going top 3) will be the most improved team next year. (Just hope the Raiders dont get him because our 2011 pick will end up at least in the teens)

You'll never hear a bad word about Suh from me. I suggested him a year ago as an option if he came out early, when he wasn't a household name. So please take the following observations in that context:

1. Ngata is 340 lbs., compared to 300 or so for Suh. That's a big difference. You never see 340 lb. guys with Ngata's lateral mobility. You can find other 300 lb. guys with that kind of mobility.

2. Suh's biggest strength is his strength, along with his work ethic and attitude. Will he be able to overpower guys in the NFL the way he has in college? It's just a question, but one that has to be asked.

3. I'm sure Suh can play 3-4 DE, but does that really play to his strengths? I'm not sure it does.

I'm sure Suh will be terrific, and I'd love to have him. But again, I can't see how to make it happen without paying a fortune in terms of trade up and contract cost, and I just don't see it happening.

 

[reflexblue]

Alert....BINKY WARNING....BINKY WARNING.....Do Not...i repeat DO NOT get attached to a player.

BB will crush your heart...This has been the first in a series of Binky Warnings.

 

[mayoclinic]

Alert....BINKY WARNING....BINKY WARNING.....Do Not...i repeat DO NOT get attached to a player.

BB will crush your heart...This has been the first in a series of Binky Warnings.

At least McClain doesn't look remotely like Mike Vrabel.

 

[reflexblue]

At least McClain doesn't look remotely like Mike Vrabel.

You could make the most sane logical case to pick a player like McClain sit there on draft day with him avalible only to see BB pass on him for some obscure player one only see's in the back of the Sporting News draft guide for that position.

 

[carolinatony]

I think a move into the top 5 is highly unlikely as long as we don't have a rookie salary scale. The contract cost would be prohibitive. Even in an uncapped year, I doubt BB would want to commit that kind of money to a rookie. It would mess up the salary structure of the team, something he is very careful to preserve.


When I mention trading up I mean in the 11-17 range. The top 10 is a big gamble money wise which BB won't so this year.

Correct me if I am wrong but I remember reading about the draft that there's usually about 1-5 playes that stand out from the rest than the next range goes like 6-16ish and than drops off again. I know you can still get a star in the late rounds but that's the exception.
We need that player in this 2nd range.

 

[The Coon]

They moved up from 32 to 21 to get Dan Graham in 2002.

Good point.



I think a move into the top 5 is highly unlikely as long as we don't have a rookie salary scale. The contract cost would be prohibitive. Even in an uncapped year, I doubt BB would want to commit that kind of money to a rookie. It would mess up the salary structure of the team, something he is very careful to preserve.

Another good point, but one can dream about adding Suh to the line.


Suh could go 1st, and will almost certainly go top 3 at this point. So we'd really have to move up, and the cost in terms of picks and contract would be exorbitant.



That's what I've been talking about, a trade up if McClain is available within about 10 picks of where we draft. That's within the Dan Graham trade up range for which there's precedent. If we end up picking low 20's then that would be anywhere after 10 or so. I just don't see BB making a leap to picks 1-3 like you suggest.


Mayo, cmon you know we are picking 32nd, not in the low 20s.



You'll never hear a bad word about Suh from me. I suggested him a year ago as an option if he came out early, when he wasn't a household name. So please take the following observations in that context:

1. Ngata is 340 lbs., compared to 300 or so for Suh. That's a big difference. You never see 340 lb. guys with Ngata's lateral mobility. You can find other 300 lb. guys with that kind of mobility.

2. Suh's biggest strength is his strength, along with his work ethic and attitude. Will he be able to overpower guys in the NFL the way he has in college? It's just a question, but one that has to be asked.

3. I'm sure Suh can play 3-4 DE, but does that really play to his strengths? I'm not sure it does.

I'm sure Suh will be terrific, and I'd love to have him. But again, I can't see how to make it happen without paying a fortune in terms of trade up and contract cost, and I just don't see it happening.

It wont happen. McClain is more likely. If we stand pat in the draft, we could be in good position to land an interior OL like Iupati or pouncey which could drastically improve us on the other side of the ball.

 

[carolinatony]

The more I think about it the more it wouldn't surprise me if BB when more offense this draft. Yes, he may and should take a pass rusher but its possible he could go OL,RB,TE early and surprise us all.
After pass rush OL and RB are big needs.

 

[HarkDawg]

Su is Great. I would love him here, but w/ all things considered it seems very unlikely. Su will get screwed out of the Heisman even though he should win the award hands down.(He is definitely the best player and the most dominant player at his position.



I do not see the Pats dealing w/ the RAT and especially right before an anticipated "slot salary selections" of the future, which should come into effect NEXT YEAR/ After the '010 DRAFT.

Su is a wet dream for us Pats, but with all things considered it seems very unlikely we will get this great athlete.

 

[mgteich]

We didn't make very many changes in the offense in 2009. If Belichick is rebuilding, I agree that this may be the offense's turn. If the 2010 draft is about building toward 2011, I would note that

1) We have no guards signed beyond 2009, except that Mankins could be our for 2010 if there is not cap.

2) We have no running backs signed beyond 2010.

3) Moss's contract ends in 2010.

4) We have only Baker as a TE beyond 2009.

Others would alsio see upgrades at OT and C.


So, for all the criticism for Belichick's strategy of filling pass-rushing positions, it would not surprise me to see Belichick depend on free agency to attempt to fill this need in free agency as he always has. Perhaps we want Belichick to try again. Crable was his last effort.

The more I think about it the more it wouldn't surprise me if BB when more offense this draft. Yes, he may and should take a pass rusher but its possible he could go OL,RB,TE early and surprise us all.
After pass rush OL and RB are big needs.

 

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

With the ammunition in last years draft, the Pats could've had just about anybody. Hopefully they've learned their lesson.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

With the ammunition in last years draft, the Pats could've had just about anybody. Hopefully they've learned their lesson.

Put all their eggs in one basket, and pray to God he doesn't suffer a season-ending injury in Week 1 like Brady did?

 

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

Put all their eggs in one basket, and pray to God he doesn't suffer a season-ending injury in Week 1 like Brady did?

They had so many picks they wouldn't have to put all their eggs in on basket. I was just saying.

 

[mgteich]

As mayo has posted, there was no need to trade up to get quality additions to the defense. Belichick CHOSE to go with Chung and Brace instead of Matthews and Laurinitis. One could Barwin for one of these picks.

 

[O'Doyle Rules!]

We should also acknowledge the fact that the Patriots may not need to trade up in this year's draft, and that is because, like it or not, there is a fairly strong possibility that Vince Wilfork is going to be franchised and subsequently traded. I'm not saying I agree or disagree with the move, just saying that I feel it's likely to happen. I picture him being sent to a team like (shocker!) Oakland. They are in desperate need of a quality NT to convert to their 3-4 Defense, or at least a run stuffing DT/UT in their current 4-3. It is unanimously listed as one of their top two draft day needs along with OL help, which seems like it would be possible to address with their early round 2 selection anyways. Also, having Wilfork would help them to retain Seymour, and consequently vice versa. Oh and it just so happens that Oakland will likely be picking in the 8-12 range. Just sayin'...

 

[mayoclinic]

We should also acknowledge the fact that the Patriots may not need to trade up in this year's draft, and that is because, like it or not, there is a fairly strong possibility that Vince Wilfork is going to be franchised and subsequently traded. I'm not saying I agree or disagree with the move, just saying that I feel it's likely to happen. I picture him being sent to a team like (shocker!) Oakland. They are in desperate need of a quality NT to convert to their 3-4 Defense, or at least a run stuffing DT/UT in their current 4-3. It is unanimously listed as one of their top two draft day needs along with OL help, which seems like it would be possible to address with their early round 2 selection anyways. Also, having Wilfork would help them to retain Seymour, and consequently vice versa. Oh and it just so happens that Oakland will likely be picking in the 8-12 range. Just sayin'...

If we franchise and trade Wilfork then I'm absolutely fine with Ochmed's plan of Cody and McClain in the 1st. Dan Williams from Tennessee might also be an option in the late 1st/early 2nd round.

 

[SeymourTrophies]

I think that we should try to hemorrhage money for a younger defensive tackle or defensive end. It's a shame that we don't suck a lot or we would be in the Suh picture.

 

[SeymourTrophies]

We should also acknowledge the fact that the Patriots may not need to trade up in this year's draft, and that is because, like it or not, there is a fairly strong possibility that Vince Wilfork is going to be franchised and subsequently traded. I'm not saying I agree or disagree with the move, just saying that I feel it's likely to happen. I picture him being sent to a team like (shocker!) Oakland. They are in desperate need of a quality NT to convert to their 3-4 Defense, or at least a run stuffing DT/UT in their current 4-3. It is unanimously listed as one of their top two draft day needs along with OL help, which seems like it would be possible to address with their early round 2 selection anyways. Also, having Wilfork would help them to retain Seymour, and consequently vice versa. Oh and it just so happens that Oakland will likely be picking in the 8-12 range. Just sayin'...

That would also make our 2011 pick a lower pick.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

We should also acknowledge the fact that the Patriots may not need to trade up in this year's draft, and that is because, like it or not, there is a fairly strong possibility that Vince Wilfork is going to be franchised and subsequently traded. I'm not saying I agree or disagree with the move, just saying that I feel it's likely to happen. I picture him being sent to a team like (shocker!) Oakland. They are in desperate need of a quality NT to convert to their 3-4 Defense, or at least a run stuffing DT/UT in their current 4-3. It is unanimously listed as one of their top two draft day needs along with OL help, which seems like it would be possible to address with their early round 2 selection anyways. Also, having Wilfork would help them to retain Seymour, and consequently vice versa. Oh and it just so happens that Oakland will likely be picking in the 8-12 range. Just sayin'...

(A) IIRC, Belichick had said they had discussed trading Wilfork to the Raiders instead of Seymour, but Al Davis flatly refused.

(B) If the Pats franchise Wilfork, they could decide to use the exclusive franchise tag, as Davis did with Asomugha. [It carries a higher price tag, but prevents the player from negotiating with other teams.] If that happens, then franchise + trade is possible. If it doesn't, then I only see Wilfork leaving if a team is willing to sign him to an offer sheet, which requires that they cough up two firsts.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

(A) IIRC, Belichick had said they had discussed trading Wilfork to the Raiders instead of Seymour, but Al Davis flatly refused.

(B) If the Pats franchise Wilfork, they could decide to use the exclusive franchise tag, as Davis did with Asomugha. [It carries a higher price tag, but prevents the player from negotiating with other teams.] If that happens, then franchise + trade is possible. If it doesn't, then I only see Wilfork leaving if a team is willing to sign him to an offer sheet, which requires that they cough up two firsts.

How many teams have NT as a huge priority in their defense?

1.) Miami
2.) Denver
3.) San Diego

How many NT's available via free agency? 1
How many 3-4 NT's available in the draft 1.

Logic dictates that someone has to go to plan B for a NT.

 

[mayoclinic]

How many teams have NT as a huge priority in their defense?

1.) Miami
2.) Denver
3.) San Diego

How many NT's available via free agency? 1
How many 3-4 NT's available in the draft 1.

Logic dictates that someone has to go to plan B for a NT.

I think Dan Williams from Tennessee could play 3-4 DT at 6'3" 330#. He's climbing fast, and will likely go late 1st/early 2nd round. He could also be drafted by a team like Minnesota looking to replace Pat Williams with a big DT in the 4-3.

Add Pittsburgh to your list if Casey Hampton leaves and they stay with the 3-4.