Should we Trade UP for that player?

Discussion in 'Patriots Draft Talk' started by carolinatony, Dec 10, 2009.

  1. carolinatony

    carolinatony In the Starting Line-Up

    Watching this team fall apart this year is sad. Losing Harrison, Bruschi, Vrabel and Seymour has not helped the locker-room. Look at the mess with
    Adalius yesterday.
    We have no playmakers on defense that really make thing happen or that other teams worry about.

    I feel we should trade up and grab someone on defense that can come in and make thing happen. It nice getting a extra pick or two but this team needs to take a top player this year imo.
    Maybe its a Greg Hardy or someone else but come on; you telling me we can't grab 1 player to come in and start playing for us next year.
    That' s my 2cents
  2. Rolando McClain.

    People will say he doesn't represent any of our biggest needs. But when you take into account all of the things he could bring to this team in terms of leadership, effort, brains, fire and intensity - not to mention raw talent - then I would argue that he certainly does fill the TRUE needs of the Pats defense.

    One way or another, GET THIS GUY...
  3. MrNathanDrake

    MrNathanDrake In the Starting Line-Up

    #95 Jersey

    We can have 11 guys with Ray Lewis-like fire and intensity... But it would be useless because we still wouldnt be able to pressure the QB.
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2009
  4. The Coon

    The Coon On the Game Day Roster

    Agreed. Which begs the question, how are we going to get to the QB? If we are going to try to trade up into the top 10, its not McClain it would be Suh who we would be after. He fills multiple needs on the DL, basically i feel he will be a better Richard Seymour. The pressure he can create from the DT position will make the entire defense better. He is the biggest game changer in this draft. If we want him,it will cost our entire day 1 but we would be getting the best player in the draft.
  5. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic Supporter Supporter

    I agree. Get McClain. Then get some pass rushers in the 2nd round.

    3 weeks ago I would have agreed with those who say that we need pass rushers more than an ILB. At that time I loved McClain but argued that the need at ILB just didn't justify the pick. But right now I think we need defensive leaders even more than we need pass rushers, and McClain is the best defensive leader in the draft. I think he is a Troy Polamalu kind of difference maker. Ty Warren is a fine 3-4 DE and we took him at a position of need in 2003, but we could have had Polamalu instead.

    I don't think you pass up the chance to get guys like that. They're rare. McClain will make this defence immensely better.
  6. Seneschal2

    Seneschal2 In the Starting Line-Up

    Of course BB would -- for the right player.

    Precedent was set with the Daniel Graham round one trade up. But Belichick has attempted to move up for other players as well. TE Todd Heap and WR Mark Clayton were two reported targets during their respective drafts.

    McClain is a no-brainer because of his VALUE to the overall defense. If your goal is to play T-E-A-M defense, then a foundation needs to be in place. Part of that foundation has been broken with the loss of some veteran players. Rolando would re-solidify the core D with his leadership and playmaking ability, while complementing Mayo and the young talent in the secondary.

    The pass rush will most certainly be addressed. But as always under BB, the most glaring perceived need will be filled with the options and opportunities available. If an available edge rusher does not represent first round value, then another position will be the round one pick.

    The hope here is that McClain will be within reach.
  7. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic Supporter Supporter

    Well said.

    We need leadership and better team defense as much as, if not even more, than pass rushers. We need a swarming, aggressive, attacking defense. Not a soft, reactive, cushy defense. McClain would bring intensity and solidify the core of our defense. Then add some edge rushers and we would be set.
  8. Lockdown06

    Lockdown06 On the Game Day Roster

    if we're trading up, let's go all out - Cleveland, the Bucs, those are the teams that will be picking at the top, and they have multiple needs - we have the ammo to go get Suh, and he would have a seymour-like effect on this D.

    Get Suh, franchise wilfork, sign a high powered FA rusher, maybe someone like Dansby, and our defense would have a whole new look.
  9. carolinatony

    carolinatony In the Starting Line-Up

    Rolando McClain.
    One way or another, GET THIS GUY...

    Well I hope BB does this. We have the picks. Someone needs to lead us.
    Look at the steelers with Polamalu. He gets them going.
    I hate to say this but Brady won't be here forever. Lets get the D back on track and get another SB or two.
  10. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic Supporter Supporter

    Some interesting reads on McClain:

    The Sports Bank.Net Blog Archive Rolando McClain Leads Alabama Defense

    "It’s like we are a band of brothers out there. We don’t want to let the guy beside us down. I think that’s the important thing and that’s what he has put in us, we don’t want to let the guy beside us down. You don’t want to be that guy that messes up a play, because everybody has to be accountable for what they do on the field and accountability is what he’s [Nick Saban] taught us."

    Alabama Crimson Tide linebacker Rolando McClain is the total package - ESPN

    "But there are times in practice when the coaches take McClain out of a drill to give a younger guy some work. McClain takes the play off. On those occasions, more often than not, McClain will not trot over to the sideline, grab a water bottle and chat up his teammates. McClain will walk to the middle of the field to stand alongside head coach Nick Saban. Saban will watch the drill with his arms crossed. McClain will watch the drill with his arms crossed. When McClain, consciously or not, adopts Saban's posture, it is physical confirmation of what everyone within Alabama football already understands. Ro McClain is Nick Saban writ large -- and fast and explosive. 'Coach on the field' may be a cliché. With McClain, it fits. He may have a football-hot body but McClain is loved by his coaches and his teammates for his mind. 'It's unbelievable how much he understands the game,' fellow linebacker Cory Reamer said. 'The second part is how well he knows the defense. He really knows what Coach would like to go to in the situations we get it and he really does a good job communicating it.'

    On offense, when quarterback Greg McElroy calls an audible, the center changes the blocking scheme for the offensive line, and the backs and wide receivers signal one another their changes. On defense, when McClain calls an audible, he makes the changes for the defensive linemen, the secondary and the linebackers. ... 'Some guys understand their position,'" Saban said. 'But I would venture to guess Ro knows what every player is supposed to do on every play on defense, and he knows like I know who didn't do right, and when he didn't do right, sometimes immediately.' "

    McClain has yet to file with NFLDAB | | The Tuscaloosa News | Tuscaloosa, AL

    " 'Naturally, you’ll think about the NFL. But it’s not even my focus right now. I really couldn’t care less about the NFL at this point,' McClain said. 'I still have another game to play, and that’s my focus.' "

    Bama’s Rolando McClain wins Butkus Award | | The Tuscaloosa News | Tuscaloosa, AL

    "McClain’s leadership was on display near the end of Saturday’s Southeastern Conference Championship Game against Florida, when he refused to allow teammate Terrence Cody and others to dump a cooler of Gatorade on Saban, as is common following championship victories. Instead, McClain told Cody the SEC title game wasn’t the team’s final goal and dumped all the sideline coolers on the Georgia Dome turf. 'I told them it’s a big win but it’s not the biggest win. I told them if we win the national championship, you can put whatever you want to put on him. But until then, we’re not going to drench coach with Gatorade,' McClain said. 'I dumped the water out and the Gatorade out. It wasn’t the right time for it. I didn’t want our guys to feel like the SEC championship was it for us. I didn’t want them to act like that was the last game or the biggest game because it’s not. We have the biggest game of our life out there. After we win it -- or, when we win it -- you can dump (on) coach then.' "

    That's the kind of guy who will make this defense better.

    Yes, we need pass rushers. Badly. But even more we need impact players with the kind of focus, intensity, commitment to team defense and smarts to give the defense a strong identity and foundation.
  11. bigcountry75

    bigcountry75 Third String But Playing on Special Teams

    As I don't disagree that Suh would be a huge impact player the difference between trading up for Suh and McClain would be huge I believe.....There projected spots to get picked would cost us extra picks that we need to build other needs like O-line and maybe get a project pass rusher but I only think we need to trade up and get McClain if we can get a good pass rusher via free agency as Mayo has suggested..
  12. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic Supporter Supporter

    I don't think we can afford to give our whole draft away, which is what it would cost to get Suh. And while Suh is the best defensive prospect in the draft, I'm not sure that he would be more valuable to us than McClain.

    I'm hoping that McClain being an ILB causes him to last until within around 10 picks of where we draft. Then I think a tradeup would be worthwhile. But if he becomes another Aaron Curry then the cost would likely be prohibitive.
  13. Ochmed Jones

    Ochmed Jones Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

    #12 Jersey

    Again I think you have to consider the defense that we play and would Suh be a fit for that defense. I see Suh as strictly a 4-3 DT with little position flexibility.

    All his college life, he has been taught to fly upfield at the snap of the ball. Our guys have to read first. That is a huge difference and really takes away from some of Suh's biggest strengths. We wind up withy a square peg in a round hole.

    There is no doubt in my mind that Suh is a big time player, but is he a fit for us, I tend to doubt it.
  14. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic Supporter Supporter

    You're preaching to the choir.

    I think Suh is a great player, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if Cameron Heyward and Allen Bailey are better 3-4 DE prospects. Anyway, the cost is prohibitive. I was interested in Suh last year when he considered coming out and would have been a likely late 1st round/early 2nd round pick, but not at what it would cost to get him now. And even if Suh were able to produce for us like he has been producing, I'm still not sure that McClain wouldn't have more overall value to our defense.
  15. Ochmed Jones

    Ochmed Jones Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

    #12 Jersey

    I don't even think it is close, McClain would add a ton more value to our club.

    But before the McClain lovefest goes too far, I just want to point out that McClain does what he does in large part because of the 400 pound mountain known as Mount Cody in front of him gobbling up two and three blockers at a time. McCalin has a ton of room to roam thanks to the big guy and I think that plays a huge part in McClain's game.
  16. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic Supporter Supporter

    Excellent point. There's no doubt that McClain benefits from Cody. How would you expect him to do behind Wilfork?
  17. The Coon

    The Coon On the Game Day Roster

    Who knows if we even need McClain, we may have the guy to place next to Mayo already on the roster in Tyrone McKenzie.

    With regards to the McClain vs Suh argument, you just made your point in that the LBs are able to roam and make plays due to those rare DL who can take up 2 guys on that OL. Look at the Ravens, who would you rather have, Ray Lewis or Haloti Ngata? I take Ngata 10 out of 10 times. Casey Hampton or those steeler LBs? Hampton. Same can be said for Suh, i take Suh over McClain every time. Ill take Mount Cody over McClain every time. We need to continue to build the interior lines, this is where games are won and lost. With Wilforks situation in limbo, DL could be our biggest need area.

    Its all a mute point because we all know the pats wont trade up, they will likely trade down again to get picks for future years.
  18. Ochmed Jones

    Ochmed Jones Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

    #12 Jersey

    I think the only adjustment will eb that behind Cody, nothing except the ball carrier is coming at McClain, with Wolfolk, who tends to play on skates a bit, McClain may have to stack a bit more before chopping down ball carriers.
  19. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic Supporter Supporter

    1. We never know what the Pats will do. They've traded up many times in the past, and could easily do so again.
    - Traded up for Dan Graham and Ty Warren in the 1st round
    - Traded up for Matt Light, Bethel Johnson and Chad Jackson in the 2nd round

    2. Assuming Wilfork is franchised and stays for 2010, we already have a DT who can take up 2 blockers. And Suh is a different kind of player.

    3. I'll take Ngata over Ray Lewis and just about any defensive player in the NFL any day. But Ngata's are rare. He's not just a space eating DT, he's a versatile guy who can move around on the line and do a lot of things. Those kind of players are very rare. And so are McClain-type players. I think when you find those guys you have to go after them, regardless of where they play. I will admit, given a choice between 2 of them I'd take the one on the line first.

    4. None of us have any idea how McKenzie will turn out. But I don't think that would stop me at this time from going after McClain. If McKenzie had played this year and been successful, yes. But not at this point.
  20. The Coon

    The Coon On the Game Day Roster

    Yeah they did trade up for Graham and Warren but only a couple spots. If memory serves me right, we moved up from 14 to 13 to get Warren, just so no one else tried to jump ahead of us. Im talking a jets type move into the top 5 for Sanchez not a 1 spot move or a move into the mid 20s from 32. But yes your right we have no idea what the pats might do come the draft, im going off our past history in that we have more of a tendancy to move down to acquire future picks. If we move into the top 10 i would try to Suh, not McClain. I believe Suh will enhance the play of the other 10 defensive players more than McClain would. Dont get me wrong i like McClain and if hes there from pick 8 to 15 i would try to trade for him in a heartbeat, but if im trying to get to picks 1-3, lets try to get Suh over McClain. Suh is a rare DT who can apply pressure with his sheer ability and also has Ngata ability to move sideline to sideline and is very fast for his size. Did we all see him throwing McCoy around like a rag doll? Hes a beast, a guy that can create pressure on his own and he plays within the defensive system hes given, hes THAT GOOD. Of course im biased living in Omaha, but from listening to him here on local radio hes very humble, doesnt take anything for granted and is EXACTLY THE PERSONALITY THAT THIS TEAM NEEDS. You watch, whatever team gets him (cause hes going top 3) will be the most improved team next year. (Just hope the Raiders dont get him because our 2011 pick will end up at least in the teens)

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