Welcome to PatsFans.com

Should We Trade Up For South Carolina DE Melvin Ingram??

Discussion in 'Patriots Draft Talk' started by Joey007, Mar 25, 2012.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Joey007

    Joey007 Rookie

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2010
    Messages:
    1,345
    Likes Received:
    9
    Ratings:
    +26 / 0 / -0

    #91 Jersey

    Let's make a scenario here. Let's say we decide to do trade for a guy like Asante Samuel let's say...... 2nd-3rd round pick?? And instead of drafting a safety in the high rounds, we move McCourty or Dowling to Safety and draft a safety a little later (maybe a George Iloka, Trumaine Johnson) I would think we could trade both 1st's for a pick around, say in the upper top 10, and Ingram's still on the board. Would you guys think Bill would consider doing this?
  2. rookBoston

    rookBoston Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    1,466
    Likes Received:
    4
    Ratings:
    +9 / 0 / -0

    Trading up for Ingram might be doable with 27 + 48. The question is do we prefer Ingram to Nick Perry + Harrison Smith, which is the rough value story. I think it's a close call; I would not rush into that trade. If Ingram drops into range for 27 + 63, then I vote Yes.

    Why make the question more complicated by wrapping Asante Samuel into the discussion? Anything to do with Asante, his unreasonable contract and his unreasonable salary expectations are a terrible idea.
  3. Joey007

    Joey007 Rookie

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2010
    Messages:
    1,345
    Likes Received:
    9
    Ratings:
    +26 / 0 / -0

    #91 Jersey

    The reason why was because many people want us to draft Barron if availible at 27, but that wouldn't happen if the 27th and 31st picks were used. And then the gap would still be there in the secondary. I would've said sign Ladarious Webb, but he would cost a first rounder, wouldn't he since he's RFA? Well, if what you said they could trade up for works, then getting Ingram/Webb scenario would work.
  4. UK_Pat37

    UK_Pat37 Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2011
    Messages:
    1,201
    Likes Received:
    13
    Ratings:
    +23 / 2 / -0

    #12 Jersey

    Our two firsts reportedly have a value of around a #10 pick...I don't think that will be enough for Ingram. He's the most versatile DE in the draft and the best. Jacksonville and Miami could well split between Coples and Ingram. I'd settle for either, whilst Ingram has the most versatility and Coples has question marks surrounding his motor and work ethic.

    I do believe the team should trade up however. They need D Line...a 5-tech end who can move inside. Fletcher Cox stands out the most to me as a day one starter. There's a major drop off in talent after the first few defensive linemen so you either want to be picking high in the first or not at all if you want true value. Cox, Perry, Ingram, Coples and Poe are the only guys I would entertain trading up into the top 15 for. Brockers or still I would entertain lower down, as well as Curry towards the very end and Mercilus somewhere in there too., Mercilus worries me a little. Could wind up being just a situational rusher but he has enough upside as a pass rusher to be considered in the first round.

    I'd be surprised if our two first alone got us any higher than #10 with the value a first round pick possesses now!

    How about both firsts or a first, a second combined with Brian Hoyer for a #4 from Cleveland? ;) I'd let that slip any day!
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2012
  5. NinjaZX6R

    NinjaZX6R Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2010
    Messages:
    2,841
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    Nope. He is 6'1 and has 31.5 inch arms.
  6. Christopher Patriot

    Christopher Patriot Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2010
    Messages:
    326
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    Rather have Coples, or Claiborne.
  7. Joey007

    Joey007 Rookie

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2010
    Messages:
    1,345
    Likes Received:
    9
    Ratings:
    +26 / 0 / -0

    #91 Jersey

    I really don't want Coples, but maybe that's because of what happened with Robert Quinn last year. Claiborne would be nice, but pass rusher's a bigger need than CB.
  8. patsderoer

    patsderoer Rookie

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2012
    Messages:
    410
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    Melvin Ingram college career in the SEC
    21 sacks 30.5 TFL 109 Tackles in 50 games

    Jake Bequette college career in the SEC
    23.5 sacks 31 TFL 126 Tackes in 48 games

    Jake is better in every category. Jake also has better size at 6'5" 274 vs 6'1" 264.

    Their combine numbers
    Ingram 3 cone 6.83 shuttle 4.18 vert 34.5 broad 109 10yard split 1.72
    Bequette 3 cone 6.90 shuttle 4.07 vert 34 broad 113 10yard split 1.72

    Ingram got most of his sacks and TFL playing DT, and overmatching slow footed college OGs with his burst. That wont fly much in the NFL. When he was lined up as DE in college, Ingram was pretty ineffective.

    Absolutely no need to throw away 2 1round picks for Ingram, when you can get a better player in Bequette with one of the 2nd round picks.
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2012
  9. NinjaZX6R

    NinjaZX6R Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2010
    Messages:
    2,841
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    Not again.....^^...
  10. UK_Pat37

    UK_Pat37 Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2011
    Messages:
    1,201
    Likes Received:
    13
    Ratings:
    +23 / 2 / -0

    #12 Jersey

    Bequette is not a better player than Ingram...jesus christ!
  11. patsderoer

    patsderoer Rookie

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2012
    Messages:
    410
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    Because you say so? Sorry to confuse you with FACTS.

    Bequette had better production in college, better size.

    Anyone who watches Ingram highlights sees that what I have said is true, Ingram did get a lot of his sacks playing DT and overmatching slow footed OGs with his burst. That wont fly much in the NFL
  12. rookBoston

    rookBoston Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    1,466
    Likes Received:
    4
    Ratings:
    +9 / 0 / -0

    Ingram also had two Interceptions. That's pretty special for a man as big as he is. Let's not be too literal, tho. Stats will only give you part of the story.

    There's a lot more going on in Ingram's game than Bequette. Jake plays upfield. Ingram can do that and a lot more for the team. He can drop into coverage, he can be a power back. Has been a punter and a long snapper; not to say he will as a pro, but it speaks to his athleticism and mental versatility. He's just a pretty incredible football player.

    I think Bequette might be a Jarvis Green for us.
    Ingram would be more like... well, I cant think of anyone that resembles him. Quicker than McGinest with the same size; maybe not as overpowering as Willie in a power game. But an entirely different echelon of talent.
  13. DW Toys

    DW Toys Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2007
    Messages:
    2,832
    Likes Received:
    5
    Ratings:
    +11 / 1 / -2

    I respect your perspective. Going through a lot of people smarter than you or I that are former talent evaluators in the NFL, Ingram is rated higher. Your man is considered a third or fourth rounder. Ingram who is bigger than both Steeler OLBs by the name of James Harrison and is as big as LaMarr Woodley. He is as big or bigger than both starting OLBs for the Niners. He is bigger than our former sack leader for that year Tully Banta Cain. Oh yeah....he is bigger that Rob Ninkovitch and Teddy Bruschi. It's not all stats in college. It's does he play fast, is he smart, does he have instincts, does he love the game, etc.

    He is rated as one of the top ten players in this Draft. Will BB take him? No. BB is into his very mixed results down trading for quantity rather than quality.
    Perhaps the one area BB does NOT DO HIS JOB, is in the Draft room. He is really good at picking decent second tier FA or street guys like Arrington, Woodhead and Moore. He makes good trades as a rule. BB is the best ever coach outside of his Draft record and thus passing on superior talent. It is a credit to his coaching that he can get the most out of inferior players. Imagine if he coached up real talent. In this case Ingram. Ingram is a yes sir, no sir type of kid and loves the game. But BB sees more "value" hunting fourth and fifth rounders. Don't expect him to move up in the early rounds.
    DW Toys
  14. patchick

    patchick Moderatrix Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    11,485
    Likes Received:
    246
    Ratings:
    +543 / 6 / -0

    Rook, am I reading that right? Did you just say that Melvin Ingram is the same size as Willie McGinest? :confused:
  15. Sciz

    Sciz PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2009
    Messages:
    7,215
    Likes Received:
    87
    Ratings:
    +200 / 2 / -0

    You might be the only one here.
  16. patsderoer

    patsderoer Rookie

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2012
    Messages:
    410
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    LoL at this BS "entirely different echelon" of BS.
    Like Bequette at his size could not be a powerback if the Pats try him there. Like Bequette cannot be a punter or a long snapper, or even a kicker if the Pats try him there.

    Bequette did not have 2 INT, he did however had 8 Fumble Forced in his college career(including 5 in 10 games last season). Ingram has managed to force an amazing 1 Fumble in his college career with his amazing athleticism. Clearly Ingram is on an entire different echelon of talent. That is why he had 8 QBHurries in his college career, while Bequette had only a pitiful 21 QB Hurries. Its not like QBHurries and Fumbles Forced count tho, so the fact that Bequette has more than double in both this categories than Ingram in his college career doesnt matter.

    You are right tho that stats do not give up the whole part of the story. The whole part is that Ingram got his sacks and TFLs lined up as DT, and that he could very well not be able to repeat the trick in the NFL. And if he cannot repeat the trick, the team who drafted him in the top 15 will be very pleased that this incredible talent will be able to punt or be a long snapper for them. We all know that getting a punter in the top 15 of the draft is a bargain.
  17. patsderoer

    patsderoer Rookie

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2012
    Messages:
    410
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    All you have are childish insults, like many other clowns.
  18. kurtinelson

    kurtinelson Rookie

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2004
    Messages:
    2,373
    Likes Received:
    8
    Ratings:
    +10 / 5 / -2

    #37 Jersey

    For what its worth I'm just not that high on Ingram or Mercilus. Give me Vinny Curry in round 2.
  19. SeymourTrophies

    SeymourTrophies Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2007
    Messages:
    1,086
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    To be fair, the top talent evaluators laughed when Mario Williams was picked before Leinhart, Vince Young, and Reggie Bush. Let's not put that much stock in these things. Ingram may remind everyone of James Harrison, so the scouts belabor this and he flies up the board. We always know what drives these things.

    Ingram is also 6' 1'' and 260. Ol' T-rex arms is 6'5''. Bequette did have impressive numbers at the combine for a guy who is frequently knocked for his athleticism. No bench numbers though he did say that he would for those interested.

    I'm not necessarily in the Beqeutte camp, but I'm not amazed by Ingram either. Between the two, Bequette is definitely the better value. The lateral quickness and knack for just being a gamer is interesting for a guy of his size. The fact that people just told him to play OLB which he didn't expect, he impressed, and he took it in stride and said he's got some work to do is also impressive.

    I'm still all about Gholston 2.0, aka Nick Perry though.
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2012
  20. NinjaZX6R

    NinjaZX6R Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2010
    Messages:
    2,841
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    As opposed to this comment....
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

unset ($sidebar_block_show); ?>