Should we still be concerned about the Offensive Line?

[DefenseRules]

It has been a MAJOR CONCERN of mine. I like that they added some youth to our D and O-Line, but those guys are unknowns. I DO NOT TRUST Nick Kaczur. Matt Light is an enigma to me. I just can't decide if he's a good LT or not. I saw Koppen get pushed around a lot last year and when was the last time that Stephen Neal stayed on the field consistently? Yes, I am still thinking about that horrible display against the Giants. It was shocking. Brady took a beating. Now that he has returned, in the back of my mind, I worry for his safety. I don't trust any of them. Well I have a soft spot for Mankins, but he's the only one that I have any faith in. But he didn't look all that GOOD in that Super Bowl either. Did he?
This Group didn't look all that good last year either. Matt Cassel spent a lot of time running for his life, especially when he faced defenses with a very good pass rush. This worries me the most.

I am concerned about our pass rush and linebacker depth. But the protection of the "Franchise" IS MORE IMPORTANT, IMO.

I keep wondering if it's the scheme or the players. Thoughts?

 

[BradyFixesEverything]

I'm worried. TFB makes everyone look better then they really are.

 

[Mack Herron]

2001 SB: Light, Compton, Woody, Andruzzi, Robinson-Randall
2004 SB: Light, Hochstein, Koppen, Andruzzi, Ashworth.
2005 SB: Light, Andruzzi, Koppen, Neal, Gorin

 

[stcjones]

It has been a MAJOR CONCERN of mine. I like that they added some youth to our D and O-Line, but those guys are unknowns. I DO NOT TRUST Nick Kaczur. Matt Light is an enigma to me. I just can't decide if he's a good LT or not. I saw Koppen get pushed around a lot last year and when was the last time that Stephen Neal stayed on the field consistently? Yes, I am still thinking about that horrible display against the Giants. It was shocking. Brady took a beating. Now that he has returned, in the back of my mind, I worry for his safety. I don't trust any of them. Well I have a soft spot for Mankins, but he's the only one that I have any faith in. But he didn't look all that GOOD in that Super Bowl either. Did he?
This Group didn't look all that good last year either. Matt Cassel spent a lot of time running for his life, especially when he faced defenses with a very good pass rush. This worries me the most.

I am concerned about our pass rush and linebacker depth. But the protection of the "Franchise" IS MORE IMPORTANT, IMO.

I keep wondering if it's the scheme or the players. Thoughts?

Kaczur and Light are turnstiles much of the time. So yes, while the two of them are in there....I am concerned about the offensive line....and Tom Brady's health.....

 

[Schmo]

How do you suggest we improve it? Trade Mayo, Meriweather etc. for Joe Thomas and Jake Long?

Our O-line is VERY dependable as a whole and they do exactly what is asked of them. We shouldn't get rid of all of them because we lost the SB 1 1/2 years ago in a fluke game. They are a big (the biggest?) reason why we won 11 games last year WITHOUT Brady. BB is bringing guys in that will eventually take over starting positions... but then you will have to complain about how guys like Vollmer are turnstiles while we win 11+ games.

 

[satz]

Half the sacks cassell was not running he put his head down and ran into the defender or was running around with his head down.Someitime he ran into his own lineman and not even looking up.

Tom brady will not be brady without a very good LT ,if some one wants to argue that a LT is not needed for a good qb then they are kidding themself.I do not under what you want to do go the colts way draft a high LT who is either injured or cannot cut it .It is very hard to find a quality LT yet we are all ready to get rid of a good one.

No idea how brady made all his blocker better are you suggesting when 5 or 6 people are pass rushing brady is neutralizing all rushers !
amazing.

How many winning drives have seen and how many sacks has light given on such drives resulting in a loss?

We pull our OL in RB Screens and WR bubble screens and for that you need faster smaller downfield blocking OL. from your post its Obvious you hate screens of anykind and would like very big OL who cannot run intresting .

If we do the change we can get rid of faulk and reduce the effectiveness of wes welker and no more pulling tackle guard or centers on screen.

 

[Deus Irae]

How do you suggest we improve it? Trade Mayo, Meriweather etc. for Joe Thomas and Jake Long?

Our O-line is VERY dependable as a whole and they do exactly what is asked of them. We shouldn't get rid of all of them because we lost the SB 1 1/2 years ago in a fluke game. They are a big (the biggest?) reason why we won 11 games last year WITHOUT Brady. BB is bringing guys in that will eventually take over starting positions... but then you will have to complain about how guys like Vollmer are turnstiles while we win 11+ games.

Ryan Clady and Michael Oher have both been passed over by BB. Let's not pretend that the team hasn't had the opportunity to get top prospects at the tackle spots. BB surely has his reasons for the moves he's made, but the "trade for..." stuff just doesn't fly.

 

[Schmo]

Ryan Clady and Michael Oher have both been passed over by BB. Let's not pretend that the team hasn't had the opportunity to get top prospects at the tackle spots. BB surely has his reasons for the moves he's made, but the "trade for..." stuff just doesn't fly.

Exactly... do we want Clady over Mayo? Oher over Chung? While some here have the opinion that we should, BB clearly disagrees. I'm sure Dante is in the war room every year lobbying for taking players such as those two, but there is a reason BB hasn't urgently addressed the o-line.

That is what I love about the draft... while some want to see the Pats pick their draft binkie, it's one of the only times during the year that we actually get to see what Belichick is truly thinking.

 

[maverick4]

2001 SB: Light, Compton, Woody, Andruzzi, Robinson-Randall
2004 SB: Light, Hochstein, Koppen, Andruzzi, Ashworth.
2005 SB: Light, Andruzzi, Koppen, Neal, Gorin

Great post. We are fine at O-line.

Looking back at that entire 2001 roster, without Belichick we had no business playing for the championship.

 

[mgteich]

If you are concerned with Light and Kaczur, then you should be concerned. Of course, we all have our problems. We won 3 Super Bowls with much poorer lines.

It has been a MAJOR CONCERN of mine. I like that they added some youth to our D and O-Line, but those guys are unknowns. I DO NOT TRUST Nick Kaczur. Matt Light is an enigma to me. I just can't decide if he's a good LT or not. I saw Koppen get pushed around a lot last year and when was the last time that Stephen Neal stayed on the field consistently? Yes, I am still thinking about that horrible display against the Giants. It was shocking. Brady took a beating. Now that he has returned, in the back of my mind, I worry for his safety. I don't trust any of them. Well I have a soft spot for Mankins, but he's the only one that I have any faith in. But he didn't look all that GOOD in that Super Bowl either. Did he?
This Group didn't look all that good last year either. Matt Cassel spent a lot of time running for his life, especially when he faced defenses with a very good pass rush. This worries me the most.

I am concerned about our pass rush and linebacker depth. But the protection of the "Franchise" IS MORE IMPORTANT, IMO.

I keep wondering if it's the scheme or the players. Thoughts?

 

[State]

If you are concerned with Light and Kaczur, then you should be concerned. Of course, we all have our problems. We won 3 Super Bowls with much poorer lines.

I agree except Joe Andruzzi, who I hope is doing well with the cancer, was a warhorse who never seemed to miss a game, very much unlike the talented, athletic Neal who is unable to stay healthy.

I'd rather have Kaczur move down to LG, and have O'C, Vollmer, and Britt compete for RT. We need stability, which has never occurred with S. Neal. Unfortunately.

 

[Synovia]

We need stability, which has never occurred with S. Neal. Unfortunately.

Since becoming a starter, Neal has played in 16,16,13,8,11 games. He's essentially been hurt ONCE in his career (that caused him to miss 8 games in 07, and 6 in 08).


Thats actually WAY above average 'stability' for an NFL player at any position other than QB.

 

[AzPatsFan]

The Pats offensive line with the present five starters had the only 16 game undefeated season. That ain't chicken feathers. But the depth issue was called into question when O'Callghan went down in early 2007, Hochstein the prime interior reserve was hurting the last few playoff games, and both Stephen Neal and Kevin Faulk a starting RG and the best blitz pickup RB, were both lost early in the Super-Bowl. That hobbled Patriots Offensive line had a bad time of it,after routinely handling the Giants pass rush, a mere few games earlier.

That was a rare confluence of circumstances.

But nothing is forever, this fine line, is in its Prime, for another few years, but it is never to early to start grooming replacements. And Belichick did so. He sent Dante out to look at draft prospects and Dante found a couple of trainees that he liked.

Bill drafted Vollmer, OT; Ohrnberger, G/C; and Bussey, G/T, as newly matriculating members of Dante's Graduate School for Offensive Linemen.
In two or three years when the line is aging these players will be prepared to step in. In the meantime, the depth is better.

I don't know where the nonsense that this is Neal's last season, got to be "common knowledge" among posters. Good offensive linemen can and do routinely play into their mid-30s, so Neal has two or three years left, before heading off into the sunset. And he is the oldest of the current starters.

 

[PatsChowder]

I'm casting my vote to the side of non-panic. Would it be nice to have a franchise LT, of course. Who wouldn't want that? The thing is Belichick has opted to acquire a group of good versatile linemen instead of just finding elite talent at one or two positions. We currently sit with seven linemen that are capable of strong performances:

Dan Koppen
Logan Mankins
Stephen Neal
Sebastian Vollmer
Matt Light
Nick Kaczur
Ryan O'Callaghan

You can't overestimate how important it will be to have fresh linemen in the game when the 4th quarter roles around. Having this group also helps lessen the blow if there were an injury.

 

[mgteich]

1) I see no particular reason to believe that Vollmer is currently capable of strong performances and Ohrenberger is not. Both are fine prospects and will likely need development. I like the picks, and they could perform in 2009 if there are injuries. I hope they get time to develop.

2) LeVoir says hi! He is quite capable of strong performances.

3) O'Callaghan is a concussion waiting to happen.

4) The issue on the OL is backup in the interior line. The tackles are fine. We have three solid tackles. If there is an injury to any of the interior lineman, we will be likely be depending on Johnson or Hochstein.

I'm casting my vote to the side of non-panic. Would it be nice to have a franchise LT, of course. Who wouldn't want that? The thing is Belichick has opted to acquire a group of good versatile linemen instead of just finding elite talent at one or two positions. We currently sit with seven linemen that are capable of strong performances:

Dan Koppen
Logan Mankins
Stephen Neal
Sebastian Vollmer
Matt Light
Nick Kaczur
Ryan O'Callaghan

You can't overestimate how important it will be to have fresh linemen in the game when the 4th quarter roles around. Having this group also helps lessen the blow if there were an injury.

 

[Leave No Doubt]

The OL's had a lot of much-needed rest and whatever injuries they may have incurred during the grueling 07 season have had time to heal. Brady's back along with his QBing style, something this OL has been so used to that protecting him was probably second nature, so (knock on wood) there'll be no adjusting to a different QB. I'm not worried Yet, though they'd better be ready; teams WILL try and nail TFB, no doubt in my mind about that

 

[AzPatsFan]

1) I see no particular reason to believe that Vollmer is currently capable of strong performances and Ohrenberger is not. Both are fine prospects and will likely need development. I like the picks, and they could perform in 2009 if there are injuries. I hope they get time to develop.

2) LeVoir says hi! He is quite capable of strong performances.

3) O'Callaghan is a concussion waiting to happen.

4) The issue on the OL is backup in the interior line. The tackles are fine. We have three solid tackles. If there is an injury to any of the interior lineman, we will be likely be depending on Johnson or Hochstein.

I concur, but if the tackles are healthy, Nick Kaczur swinging inside, would make an awfully good Guard, too.

I thnk all the tackles are underated. i belieive any of Light, Kaczur, Levoir O'Callaghan, Britt, and eventually Volmer could start; and would produce adequate performances.

However, I agree such is NOT the case with the designated inside players. Only Mankins, Neal, Koppen and to a degree Hochstein, are worthy. Yates can only play at a sub-par level and it shows. Improvement is possible and desired there. But don't forget there is a talent pool of tackles that could be called on, to swing inside.

 

[mgteich]

I'm not sure how well our talented tackles would be at guard, but I do think that at least one of them could play LG.

The real chanllenge is to construct an opening day roster that can survive at injury at center. Who would be the starting center if Koppen were out for a few weeks? Who would be the Game Day backup?

I concur, but if the tackles are healthy, Nick Kaczur swinging inside, would make an awfully good Guard, too.

I thnk all the tackles are underated. i belieive any of Light, Kaczur, Levoir O'Callaghan, Britt, and eventually Volmer could start; and would produce adequate performances.

However, I agree such is NOT the case with the designated inside players. Only Mankins, Neal, Koppen and to a degree Hochstein, are worthy. Yates can only play at a sub-par level and it shows. Improvement is possible and desired there. But don't forget there is a talent pool of tackles that could be called on, to swing inside.

 

[State]

3) O'Callaghan is a concussion waiting to happen.

Unfortunately, I think you're right. This summer may be the beginning of the end of the O'C NFL run. Lord knows, he has the talent and has beaten out Kaczur before. But I don't think the Patriots think he's a long-term player here because of health issues, helping them to go for an even bigger body in Vollmer.

I still hold out hope for Wesley Britt. But LeVoir opened my eyes, certainly, with his play last season. I hate to say this but he was almost an upgrade over Matt Light, when he filled in for him.

I remember saying aloud, "Who the hell is that guy?"

Certainly this is the year for redemption: to go back to the SB and have the O-line assert itself as it has in previous ones except for the Night That Shall Not Be Remembered.

 

[PatsChowder]

I concur, but if the tackles are healthy, Nick Kaczur swinging inside, would make an awfully good Guard, too.

I thnk all the tackles are underated. i belieive any of Light, Kaczur, Levoir O'Callaghan, Britt, and eventually Volmer could start; and would produce adequate performances.

However, I agree such is NOT the case with the designated inside players. Only Mankins, Neal, Koppen and to a degree Hochstein, are worthy. Yates can only play at a sub-par level and it shows. Improvement is possible and desired there. But don't forget there is a talent pool of tackles that could be called on, to swing inside.

Not sure how I forgot LeVoir, but that only makes the point stronger. I can understand how the idea of Vollmer not being ready, but I suppose I am drinking the Kool-Aid on him. He seems legit and I would assume that BB is going to put him in situations he can succeed in. I remember BB gushing over him at the draft talking about how versatile he is. It seems that if he has trouble at one of the tackles they can flip him to the other side or shift him to the interior until he progresses.

Nevertheless I believe that 8 offensive linemen that can be shifted around are far better than 5 with no depth.