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Should Rich pay their share?

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by mikey, May 6, 2006.

  1. mikey

    mikey In the Starting Line-Up

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  2. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    Wealth envy. Such a sad thing.
     
  3. mikey

    mikey In the Starting Line-Up

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    Did you read the article?

    What is the article about?



    .
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2006
  4. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    Actually, I didn't. I saw the first line but my "bugmenot.com" login didn't work anymore so I said screw it.
     
  5. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    The reason I didn't read the article is I didn't need to because I know the facts. The rich pay almost the entire income tax. And they pay most of the sales tax because they buy more stuff. I guess if you want to argue that they should pay more you are welcome to argue that but to suggest they aren't paying their way is just silly.
     
  6. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Pro Bowl Player

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    #75 Jersey

    ...Well said...:confused:
     
  7. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    You should have read it. It's really an article wherea conservative is talking to other conservatives about taxes and decency.
     
  8. mikey

    mikey In the Starting Line-Up

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    Here is the article by BEN STEIN, a REPUBLICAN.

    May 7, 2006
    Everybody's Business
    You're Rich? Terrific. Now Pay Up.
    By BEN STEIN

    I GAVE a speech in Orlando, Fla., late last month to some private-equity folks who said that business was great. Then I flew up to Newark and the first-class section of the plane was full, and even had a waiting list. Then I rode into New York City in a blizzard of limousines, and ate dinner with my sister and her husband at a Greek place called Milos, on West 55th Street. Fresh swordfish, and it was heavenly. The place was expensive and packed.

    It was a fine evening, apparently the first in the city for weeks, and men and women were in outdoor cafes, eating, drinking, winking, smiling and flirting. A few were shouting, "Bueller! Bueller!" at me as I passed. I walked by a stunning woman in front of the Peninsula who giggled as she saw me. I walked down to the Yale Club on Vanderbilt, where men and women looked happy and assured under the portraits of presidents — the Bushes and Clinton.

    On my way back, two young men accosted me in front of Rockefeller Center. They told me they were recent Yale graduates who were making a great living working at hedge funds. They told me that their boss made $100 million a year trading currencies, and that there were dozens like him making more money than I could imagine. (I have my doubts, but that's what they said.)

    Suddenly, as the men happily walked away from me, I had a vision. Here we all are under the gorgeous crystal dome of prosperity, drinking, making money, eating swordfish, changing money at the temple, showing off ourselves to others, bragging — and all of it, every bit of it, is made possible by the men and women who wear the uniform.

    Every bit of it is done under the protection of the Marines, the Army, the Navy, the Air Force and the Coast Guard, serving and offering up their lives for pennies. And we're also under the protection of the police and the firefighters and the F.B.I., who offer up their lives for nothing compared with what others make trading money on computer screens.

    Something flashed into my mind — something that my late father used to say, quoting loosely from the economist Henry C. Simons, a founder of the Chicago School of economics: that it is "unlovely" to see the extremes of wealth and nonwealth that are evident in contemporary America.

    We may be able to live with it. Some of us may even be able to prosper amid it. But it's not pretty. The rich should simply not be that much richer than everyone else — especially those whose lives protect them from terrorism.

    As I thought that, I had a revelation about oil. We all know — and I mean all, even Congress — that the oil companies are not fixing prices. We all know that the oil companies are not creating these wild prices out of thin air.

    The worldwide market is at work, and traders and speculators are driving up the price, based on uncertainty of supplies and inventories, and presumably becoming very rich in the process (at least some of them). That's the market at work. It's not up to the government to set the price or to fix the situation except by opening more space for exploration, and even that may not help.

    In the same way, even I was startled when I read about the pay of Lee R. Raymond, the former chief executive of Exxon Mobil, who recently retired. His retirement package was in the neighborhood of $400 million — a breathtaking sum, even for those of us who admire the job that Big Oil does and think that the industry gets a bum rap.

    Still, that's between him and his stockholders, not a matter for Congress. And it would not even remotely be addressed by a windfall profits tax — an idea that has been tried and has failed miserably.

    The real problem is the difference between the rich — including rich oil people, of whom there are not many, but there are enough — and the poor. It is up to the government to redress this extraordinary difference in incomes of the rich and the nonrich, even at the margins.

    What Congress can do, and should do, is address the stunning underpayment of military men and women and the staggering budget deficits that will be a burden on our posterity for decades, by raising the taxes on the rich. It's fine that there are rich people. It's even fine that there are superrich people.

    But if they are superrich, they derive special benefits from life in the United States that the nonrich don't. For one thing, they can make the money in a safe environment, which is not true for the rich in many countries. It is just common decency that they should pay much higher income taxes than they do. Taxes for the rich are lower than they have been since at least World War II — that is to say, in 60 years.

    This makes no sense in a world at war, in a nation with so many unmet social needs, in a nation with so many people without health care, in a nation running immense and endless deficits.

    America is becoming a nation of many rich people. I recently read that there were close to 10 million millionaire households. I read that there were hundreds of thousands who made more than $1 million a year. Good for them.

    But it's unlovely for them to pay as little tax as they now pay. The real problem in this country is only temporarily about oil. That will right itself, or we'll get used to it and adjust.

    The real problem is saving a nation that is beset by terrorism, and we cannot do that unless we feel that we are all in the same boat, pulling at the oars together. That includes the rich.

    Whatever rationale there may have been in 2001 for lowering their taxes is long gone. It's time for them — us, because it includes me — to pay their (our) share.

    It's not about oil. It's about fairness.

    Ben Stein is a lawyer, writer, actor and economist. E-mail: ebiz@nytimes.com.

    .
     
  9. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    why do the Liberal Democrats want to keep RAISING the working mans taxes?
     
  10. mikey

    mikey In the Starting Line-Up

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    I thought you are totally confused, Harry Boy.

    Liberal Democrats want to LOWER working man's taxes by RAISING taxes of the richest 1% of Americans in order to RAISE the pay of US troops protecting freedom and democracy.

    I believe US troops in Iraq are earning less than $2,000 a month.


    .
     
  11. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    :singing: :singing: :singing: When the f-ck has a democrat ever lowered taxes.

    As soon as they Raised the rich guys taxes, then they'd go to work on you.
     
  12. mikey

    mikey In the Starting Line-Up

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    I am afraid your statement just confirms that you are very confused, Harry Boy.

    If you had gone to college, you would have learned that the Democrats cannot lower taxes because of the war on Iraq and the budget deficit.

    .
     
  13. gomezcat

    gomezcat It's SIR Moderator to you Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Liberal democrats want those who can afford it to pay more tax so that people get a better shot at life. We're talking about people who have stupid amounts of money and who would STILL have stupid amounts of money, even if they paid an extra 20% in taxes. Let's say people with more than $100 million paid even 40% in taxes, taking into account Income and Sales Taxes. They would STILL be left with SIXTY MILLION DOLLARS to spend. At today's rates, that is in the region of SIXTY TIMES what the average American will earn in their lifetimes, before tax. Do you think they work sixty times harder than you?

    I survive, quite comfortably, on $44,400 dollars a year, 42% of which goes in Health Insurance, State Pension, Income and Sales Tax. I also live in one of the world's most expensive cities and everything that I earn goes to business in one form or another. I'm left with approximately $ 2700 per month with which to pay my rent and all of my living costs. Yet, somehow, I'm meant to be happy that the super-rich don't pay their fair share in taxes or I'm told that the same super-rich people can't afford to pay their employees a $5 an hour minimum wage. WTF?

    Don't get me wrong. I don't begrudge people their wealth as most of them have worked damn hard for it. However, many of these people (if not the majority) pay less in taxes (as a percentage of their income) than I do.
     
  14. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I didn't say "they would lower taxes" I said "they will raise them" that is what they do, "Democrats & Taxes" they go hand in hand together like, "Love & Marriage" :bricks:
     
  15. Turd Furguson

    Turd Furguson Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    Whats wrong with a flat tax then?


    The rich would pay more taxes than the rest of us because they make more.


    I feel we tread on a slippery slope here in terms of "penalizing the rich simply because they can afford it"
     
  16. mikey

    mikey In the Starting Line-Up

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    Because it is a REGRESSIVE tax and it is contrary to public policy.

    The first $10,000 of income is for basic necessities, like rent, food, and medical care for children. So you would want to exempt or lower the tax rate for the lowest amount.

    As you go UP the income ladder, the ADDITIONAL income is less necessity and more luxury, so you would want to PROGRESSIVELY increase the tax rate.

    .
     
  17. mikey

    mikey In the Starting Line-Up

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    Turd -- I am just very curious about your perspective on taxes.

    From the amount of time you spend on this board and the quality of your postings, I would surmise you do not belong to the richest 1% Americans.

    So why are you so concerned about LOWERING the tax rate of the richest 1% and, in the process, INCREASING our budget deficit?

    Decreasing the tax rate of the RICHEST 1% Americans INCREASE the budget dericit.

    As a result, we cannot increase the pay of the US troops in Iraq and we cut down on their medical care.

    As a result of the budget deficit, we cannot shore up our Social Security and Medicare system to help the elderly Americans.

    Ultimately, the budget deficit will INCREASE YOUR taxes.

    So unless I am wrong and you belong to the RICHEST 1% Americans, why are you so adamant about lowering THEIR taxes?

    .
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2006
  18. Turd Furguson

    Turd Furguson Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    First, I'm not sure you should be questioning the quality of MY postings. Outside of the immigration issue, we agree on nothing. But you are correct, I am not rich.

    I'm not concerned with the rich, I'm more concerned with the fact that just because someone is rich or wealthy, others look to them and say, lets tax them higher, they can afford it. After you breach that barrier, its easier to go down to the next tax bracket and the next and the next and the next.....

    And rather than be concerned about raising taxes, how about we be more concerned with the SPENDING that ole W. and the rest of Congress is doing. (Not even including the war here)
     
  19. mikey

    mikey In the Starting Line-Up

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    There is a REASON why the RICH should pay HIGHER taxes.

    The REASON is simple: Because they have the MOST TO LOSE.

    As BEN STEIN so eloquently put it, the RICH are the ones who BENEFIT THE MOST from the US TROOPS dying in Iraq.

    THEREFORE, they should be the ones who should SHOULDER MOST of the COST of the war by paying HIGHER TAXES.

    I find it FUNNY that the folks who benefit MOST from George Bush's tax cut are those from the BLUE STATES.

    The RICHEST folks live in the BLUE STATES.

    That is the IRONY of George Bush's misguided tax policy.

    .
     
  20. MDPATSFAN

    MDPATSFAN On the Game Day Roster

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    Bush's misguided tax policy lowered rates for all tax payers and took 10 million families off the tax paying rolls. Right now we have 47 percent of filers paying zero...and we give out $30 Billion is EIC subsidy and even more in "refundable" child credits.

    Personally I think the minimum tax should be $10 bucks just to have a healthy, vested interest in how the country's largesse is spent.

    As far as the fat cats like Buffet, Edwards and Stein feeling guilty. STFU! All they have to do is reclassify their investment income as regular income...Then pay the 37 percent tax rate and the medicaire tax.

    Cracks me up to hear Edwards lie about the "two Americas" after he washed $40 million in lawsuit income through a dummy corp to save millions in taxes. STFU!!
     

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