Welcome to PatsFans.com

Should it be legal to discriminate? Check all that apply.

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Patters, Mar 4, 2006.

?

Should it be legal to discriminate? Check all that apply.

  1. Yes, on the basis of color

    22.2%
  2. Yes, on the basis of gender

    29.6%
  3. Yes, on the basis of sexual preference

    22.2%
  4. Yes, on the basis of religion

    22.2%
  5. Yes, on the basis of age

    29.6%
  6. Yes, on the basis of political views

    25.9%
  7. No, it should never be legal to discriminate

    66.7%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    19,006
    Likes Received:
    323
    Ratings:
    +598 / 24 / -19

    Affirmative action is an imperfect way to address discrimination. It served a useful during a time when legal precedent was being established. Now, if someone chooses to discriminate based on race, there's plenty of legal precedent. Back when affirmative action was more useful, there were many police depts., fire depts., construction crews, etc. that were all white. How do you correct for those types of inequities in the short term? If you weren't allowed to become a cop because of your race, it would be pyrhric victory to change the law and then continue to hire the sons and grandkids of firefighters who had inherited so many advantages. These are not easy problems of fairness to address.
     
  2. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2006
    Messages:
    27,458
    Likes Received:
    327
    Ratings:
    +919 / 7 / -3

    No matter what the rationale, reasoning, or justification used, AA is discrimination in it's purest form. I'm not arguing for, or against it mind you. I'm simply stating fact.
     
  3. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    19,006
    Likes Received:
    323
    Ratings:
    +598 / 24 / -19

    You're right that affirmative action is unfair, but sometimes there are no fair solutions.

    For instance, how do you think we should have addressed this:

    For most of its history, a fire department discriminated against people of color, only hiring whites. Finally, a law comes along that says it's illegal to discriminate. But, then, the only people getting hired are still white because the fire department is hiring the children and relatives of other firefighters who get all the advantages in preparing for the test in that their parents and relatives tell them the kinds of questions to expect, the kinds of answers that are expected, and other inside tricks to getting jobs.
     
  4. reflexblue

    reflexblue PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2006
    Messages:
    17,839
    Likes Received:
    145
    Ratings:
    +483 / 11 / -7

    #91 Jersey

    It was a great idea buts it been around going on fifty years. I had to live under it, my kids have to live under it, will my grand kids have to live under it/with it. How long does this have to implimented, i think its getting to the point that it has to be looked at. Your example of the Firefighters is noted but i'm sure in predominetly black or latino areas/cities the relatives or friends of those black or latino firefighters have the same advantage, it works both ways.
     
  5. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2006
    Messages:
    27,458
    Likes Received:
    327
    Ratings:
    +919 / 7 / -3

    If you want to discuss AA specifically, then start a thread about it. I've said before that I'm supportive of it in a general sense (you know, cuz I'm an eeeeeeeeeeeevil angry white guy :p). The point of this thread is should it be legal to discriminate, and I'm merely pointing out that AA is law, and is discrimination in it's purest form.
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2009
  6. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2006
    Messages:
    21,464
    Likes Received:
    498
    Ratings:
    +1,093 / 16 / -9

    Talk about stupid post of the year... ME growing tired of my own writing?

    Please.

    :singing::singing::singing:

    Look around. A poll thread about whether discrimination should be legal, and at least a third of respondents say yes (if I see that 68% figure correctly, with the other %s adding up to people who say it is sometimes legal, in whichever category... unless of course I'm Fox news in which case I insist that the "total" of those who would discriminate exceeds the 68.)

    Then our discussion primarily centers on a photo of someone with too many piercings, although I don't think body modification was on the list... maybe "appearance" was on there or something. Then a bunch of discussion of the evils of affirmative action.

    Not a damn one of us reflects the viewpoint of being on the other side of institutional racism, just for example: the assumptions loaded into the majority culture's minds.... on occasion I've run into the equivalent in terms of institutional religious bigotry, and we have had thread after thread on it. Once again, our main complaint comes around -- on this board -- to the horrors of a majority religion having to succeed without state supports, such as the inscription of Judeo-Christian slogans on our money (referring to God,) displays of Judeo-Christian scripture (the Ten Commandments) in public buildings, or the public display of Christian or Jewish symbols at taxpayer expense. Beyond that the state supports Christianity to the exclusion of Judaism as well. And if it is questioned do we have a problem with our bigotry? No! We say that there is a "war on Christmas."

    It's natural for someone who has been pampered for an irrational reason to defend that pampering. Naturally you never see the "other guy's" point of view unless you're talking to the "other guy."

    The ignorance displayed here has been pretty grotesque on a number of counts, and our concerns at the end of the day are "what about the terrrible injustices done to the favored majority?"

    Read the board. Go anywhere not predominantly white, and tell me how these viewpoints will fly.

    It's just balkanization. You're right Patters, they've decreased attacks on gays, although many of those emanated from one particular source who justified his bigotry through his religion. LOL... were he here to defend himself he'd probably say the biggest form of discrimination is that everybody isn't forced to live according to his church's doctrine.

    In terms of the comments here about Islam? Are you joking? What would you see if you were a Muslim and read these pages? How about race? Natural-born status, first-language status?

    Look at your poll results. Look at your forum.

    Draw your own conclusions.

    PFnV
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2009
  7. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2005
    Messages:
    41,752
    Likes Received:
    279
    Ratings:
    +1,153 / 5 / -10

    Will Smith said not to long ago "it's great to be Black and living in America today" the left wing media buried that one pretty quick, if he said it he must of meant it.

    Imagine how many millions of white people voted for Obama and sent him to the White House, another great thing happened with the Obama election, it put the Two Racist Pigs out of business (Al/Jessie).

    Now new Racism Brews in California and in much of the country's prisons but the media doesn't like to talk about it, the new Racism is among "all the different minority's" America now has Black, Asian, Spanish what happens when they practice Racism among themselves, how will the Social Administrators and Politically Correct Professors of Human Behavior handle that one?

    Why are there still so many Minority Neighborhoods in this country, why do people of the same ethnic background still live in segregated neighborhoods (Irish, Italian, German, Asian, Spanish, Black etc) they still exist all over America................:confused:
     
  8. Satchboogie3

    Satchboogie3 In the Starting Line-Up

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2007
    Messages:
    2,293
    Likes Received:
    3
    Ratings:
    +15 / 1 / -0

    Why shouldn't a private company have the right to hire as they see fit? You don't like what the company is doing, boycott them and give bad press.
     
  9. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Hall of Fame Poster

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2007
    Messages:
    27,332
    Likes Received:
    201
    Ratings:
    +576 / 6 / -24

    #18 Jersey

    I hate prejudice of any kind, but I have to admit, if we had people who look like this, I would find it acceptable to be prejudice against them!

    Unless, of course, they were Christian!
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Dec 20, 2009
  10. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2006
    Messages:
    27,458
    Likes Received:
    327
    Ratings:
    +919 / 7 / -3

    That's just wrong man. Just wrong.
     
  11. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    19,006
    Likes Received:
    323
    Ratings:
    +598 / 24 / -19

    I agree. Affirmative action has been largely phased out. As that has happened, a larger body of law and legal decisions has replaced it, making discrimination more difficult. That said, it is still an advantage to be white straight male in many occupations. As I said, affirmative action is imperfect and so are the alternatives. All we can do is try to make things fairer, and I think as that has come to pass, affirmative action has become less necessary.
     
  12. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    19,006
    Likes Received:
    323
    Ratings:
    +598 / 24 / -19

    Because then you risk tyranny of the majority. If companies only hired their own kind, almost all minorities would be at a disadvantage. While some people would engage in boycotts, boycotts don't work in many industries. They work in local businesses, but organizing a national boycott against, for instance, a major bank would be difficult to do especially if it discriminated against a minority that did not evoke sympathy or, because of discrimination, have economic clout. Would you go through the trouble of changing banks if your bank discriminated? Most people wouldn't bother.
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2009
  13. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Hall of Fame Poster

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2007
    Messages:
    27,332
    Likes Received:
    201
    Ratings:
    +576 / 6 / -24

    #18 Jersey

    I wouldn't give a cave man a job no matter what!:D
     
  14. MrSparkle

    MrSparkle Third String But Playing on Special Teams

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2007
    Messages:
    810
    Likes Received:
    7
    Ratings:
    +7 / 0 / -0

    I would, someone has to keep the cavewomen busy. Maybe you want that job?

    Hmmmmmmmmmm
     
  15. Stokes

    Stokes In the Starting Line-Up

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2006
    Messages:
    2,423
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    I just want to clarify here, RW already get it, but the whole idea of my was not that affirmative action was bad, just that in some cases it amounted to discrimination, in that race was used as the deciding factor between equally qualified candidates, or as a basis for rating the minority candidate. This was done with good intentions and a damn good reason, to promote equality in the workplace, but it IS discrimination based on race, so for anyone who supported AA to vote "never" in this poll is wrong, and thus we shouldn't look at all the people that voted yes as just being bigots.
     
  16. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    19,006
    Likes Received:
    323
    Ratings:
    +598 / 24 / -19

    I think that's a fair point, but if there was no discrimination, there would be no affirmative action. Thus saying it should never be legal to discriminate would eliminate affirmative action as well as the need for affirmative action.
     
  17. Stokes

    Stokes In the Starting Line-Up

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2006
    Messages:
    2,423
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    No, there would still be discrimination. Discriminating based on race is already illegal and that unfortunately doesn't stop it from happening. That's why there was the need to implement AA. You're confusing the legality of discrimination versus the existence of discrimination. At any rate, I see where you're coming from, I only want to dispel the notion that a vote for legal discrimination is not always a vote in support of bigotry as some have taken it.
     
  18. Satchboogie3

    Satchboogie3 In the Starting Line-Up

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2007
    Messages:
    2,293
    Likes Received:
    3
    Ratings:
    +15 / 1 / -0

    Right there is the problem with this country, the citizens are to lazy.

    The Gov't making discrimination illegal is simply them telling us how to think. It's as simple as that. I don't agree with discrimination, but I also don't agree that the Gov't should be able to make me "accept" people if I don't want to.
     
  19. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    19,006
    Likes Received:
    323
    Ratings:
    +598 / 24 / -19

    What have you done to protest things you don't believe in? Over time, there have been many calls for boycotts by the left and right.

    All governments teach us how to think, or are you against the Pledge of Allegiance, singing the Star Spangled Banner before Christmas, the US Constitution, having a rough national standard on the subjects taught in grades K-12. The reason we all get along as well as we do is because there is an American way of viewing the world that is taught to us by government. Your parents were taught it, so were their parents, and their parents' parents, all the way back to the earliest days of our nation when schools, churches, and authorities established right and wrong.
     
  20. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Hall of Fame Poster

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2007
    Messages:
    27,332
    Likes Received:
    201
    Ratings:
    +576 / 6 / -24

    #18 Jersey

    I keep reading that some people "think" they should be able to descriminate "if they want to".

    All I have to say is that there is no logical, good reason that anyone should "want to" be prejudice....ABSOLUTELY NO GOOD REASON.

    "Excuse me sir, why did you decide to discriminate?"

    "Ah, because I feel I have that right"

    "So you are purposefully racists?"

    "Hey, don't ever call me racist!":eek:
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2009

Share This Page

unset ($sidebar_block_show); ?>