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Should fans realize O'Connel is Cassel 2.0 & Matt is awesome trade bait?

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by BigMike, Nov 16, 2008.

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  1. BigMike

    BigMike PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    If this coaching staff can coach Matt up, they can and will do the same with O'Connell. Lets realize Tom Brady is the man, one of the best QB's in league history. Matt Cassel will be a great bargaining chip as we reload for 2009.
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2008
  2. maverick4

    maverick4 Banned

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    Big Mike, Cassel is an unrestricted free agent after this season, we don't control his rights unless we want to sign him to an expensive multi-year deal at this point, or franchise him.
  3. BigMike

    BigMike PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    unless we franchise him...we can franchise him and then trade him.
  4. unoriginal

    unoriginal Rookie

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    If this coaching staff can coach Rohan Davey up, Kevin O'Connell will be a slam dunk superstar.
  5. jmt57

    jmt57 Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Cassel is a free agent so it's unlikely a team would trade for him, unless the Pats try to (franchise) tag and trade him. Keep in mind there are some risks to that move though.

    Check out these threads on the subject if you want, but I doubt the Pats get anything for him. This season is his audition to the rest of the NFL for a big payday.

    http://www.patsfans.com/new-england...54-question-about-2009-cassel-salary-cap.html

    http://www.patsfans.com/new-england.../10/177835-2009-franchise-tag-number-qbs.html

    http://www.patsfans.com/new-england...ardi-says-patriots-have-franchise-cassel.html

    http://www.patsfans.com/new-england...keep-jets-getting-cassel-next-year-page2.html

    http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/10/165593-downside-franchising-cassel.html
  6. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    :confused:

    QB who get big paydays don't leave their team getting nothing. Unless you're the Chargers I guess. Morons, letting Brees go for nothing.
  7. Patslifer

    Patslifer Banned

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    I agree. You could work that high payed first year into some type of signing bonus. We would be IDIOTS to let him walk for nothing. Teams like the bears, the niners, the lions, the vikes and the phins would be foolish not to take a look. Can you imagine the Vikes with a good QB?
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2008
  8. ausbacker

    ausbacker Brady > Manning. PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #51 Jersey

    I think it'll come down to the teams preference over Derek Anderson or Matt Cassel. One would imagine Quinn will get the starting job over Anderson, leaving him and Cassel as the major QB acquisition during the upcoming offseason.

    This assuming the Browns wish to trade Anderson.
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2008
  9. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    Anderson blows. The days of a big QB who can throw the ball downfield but with no accuracy died in the 70s. Anderson was bad in the second half of last year and worse this year. The NFL these days is for mobile, accurate QB and the deep ball in nice but low on the list.
  10. LasVegasPatsFan

    LasVegasPatsFan Rookie

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    Pats will get something for Cassel, guaranteed. The front office is smarter than you think. I believe they will use the franchise tag on him because there will be alot of teams looking for a QB of his caliber. That is if he continues to progress.
  11. RayClay

    RayClay Rookie

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    #75 Jersey

    Ha ha. Who let reality in?
  12. fumbrunner

    fumbrunner Rookie

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    Even without the risk of franchising Cassel, we will likely get a comp pick if he leaves unrestricted. Either way, we get something. With the emergence the young LBs, I dont see the pats being that active in the free agent market.
  13. PatsWickedPissah

    PatsWickedPissah PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Disable Jersey

    You may be correct but I'd bet that BB would jump at a quality FA safety, a CB, or an OL. As Vrabes ages, a FA pass rusher would also be interesting. The draft should be a source of talent but BB hasn't been too productive with 2nd round picks lately.
  14. marcus

    marcus Rookie

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    You can not franchise a player with the intent of trading him, that violates the CBA.

    There is no way the Pats will put that much money into a backup QB. Cassell willl leave and the Pats will only get a 4th round comp pick for him
  15. Canada's #1 Pats Fan

    Canada's #1 Pats Fan Rookie

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    They did it with Tebucky Jones, didn't they?
  16. ctpatsfan77

    ctpatsfan77 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Where does it say that?
  17. Wildo7

    Wildo7 Totally Full of It

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    wouldn't it be an enormous waste of cap space for 2009 if the Pats were to just trade him for Picks, considering they would have had to sign him to a large one-year contract?
  18. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    It's right there on the crystal ball, right next to the Made in Mexico sticker.
  19. PatsFanSince74

    PatsFanSince74 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    why would anyone trade for him if they get him on the FA market in the spring?
  20. Bonzo

    Bonzo Rookie

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    You know, this would be a reasonable rule to me. The action would sort of violate the spirit of the franchise tag. (Then again, so does just about every other purpose for which it is used.) I've expected somebody to drop evidence of such a restriction throughout these discussions, but it hasn't surfaced yet, and I'm pretty sure franchised players have been traded before.
  21. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    You confuse me...if the Pats Franchise and Trade Cassel, they trade his contract, which clears their books since they haven't paid him any guaranteed money up front.
  22. Wildo7

    Wildo7 Totally Full of It

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    Yeah it clears their books, but they would have had to make $11 million in space available in order to tag him to begin with. They can't violate the cap and say "$11 million of it doesn't count because we're going to trade him." I agree that AFTER he is traded there would be an additional $11 million in empty cap space, but where is that money going to be spent? Unless they are receiving a currently active player in the trade with a large contract, they are going to have 11$ million in unused cap for 2009. Unless of course I have a shoddy understanding of this, which is a distinct possibilty.
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2008
  23. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Those advocating trade are, for the most part, doing so after the Pats have presumably Franchised Mattyice thus reasserting control of his market.
  24. Wildo7

    Wildo7 Totally Full of It

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    I still don't see how they can risk doing that considering they'd have 11$ million in empty space with nobody to spend it on and if there's a chance no other team is willing to pay him 11$ million for 2009.
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2008
  25. sieglo

    sieglo Rookie

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    Aren't we looking at an uncapped year anyway? So who cares? LOL.
  26. ctpatsfan77

    ctpatsfan77 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    11$ million? :confused:

    Seriously, though, I can think of a few folks that they might be able to use that $11M on (e.g., Vince Wilfork, Richard Seymour, Ellis Hobbs, David Thomas, Stephen Gostkowski, etc.).

    2010 is scheduled to be uncapped, but the salary cap is alive and illin' until then.
  27. Wildo7

    Wildo7 Totally Full of It

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    11$ million is what the Pats would have to pay him for next year. When they tag him, they'd have to make sure that ALL of the other contracts are under the cap. Since they won't be able to ask Wilfork or whoever to renegotiate their contracts on the assumption that Cassel will leave, they'll have all of their existing contracts (minus whoever they had to cut to free up 11 million in the first place) plus an extra $11 million to spend on nobody. Just giving it to Wilfork or someone for the sake of it does nothing, since it's cap space for 2009 only, not beyond that. You'd be basically getting rid of 11$ million dollars worth of contracts and players inorder to apply the tag and replacing it with nothing.
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2008
  28. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I believe Miguel has projected Franchise Tag value for a QB to be in the $14 million range.

    The Franchise Tag is applied before Free Agency or the Trade window is opened. Teams seriously interested in trading for Matt would begin exploring the possibility fairly early - the reason being they would want to get him into their offseason program as early as possible to begin training him on their playbook and giving him time to develop relationships with his fellow offensive teammates and his new coaches. That $14 million of cap space would most likely be available early enough for the Pats to take full advantage of it - the Pats have 7 "starters" (counting Gostkowski, but excluding older veterans like Bru, Vrabes, and Faulk) and at least 3 key role players entering Free Agency after the 2009 season.

    The Pats have two reasons to Franchise Tag Cassel:
    - Tommy's rehab is going slower than hoped and there is a real risk he may not be ready for the start of the 2009 Regular Season (implicit in this is a belief that neither O'Connell or Gutierrez would be ready to serve if called upon).
    - Tommy's rehab is going well and the market for Mattyice is strong enough they can be assured of a trade occuring early enough to receive significant value above and beyond any cap inconvenience.

    The bottom line for fans: BB and SP know their jobs and will make their decision based on what's best for the team. All our speculation is just a variety of guesses, some more reasonable than others. If they Franchise Mattyice, it's because they have reason to believe they will get their money's worth out of that move - either on the playing field or in the NFL marketplace.
  29. Box_O_Rocks

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    They may have to reshuffle a few pennies, but that's been done before - no big deal.
  30. Wildo7

    Wildo7 Totally Full of It

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    I don't doubt that they will do what ever is best, but the only scenario I can see them franchising him is if they think he's going to have to fill in for Brady in some capacity, but I'm talking about the idea of "trade bait."

    Speculating specifically about this, which we are allowed to do as fans, Cassel would have no incentive to tell the Pats "yeah franchise tag me and trade me and I'll agree to a long term contract with that team" when he can refuse and hit FA. No team is ever going to trade for a player worth $14 million dollars for ONE year without having a long term contract lined up, and his agent knows that the contract they offer in the trade is going to be less than what he could get if 4 or 5 teams would be competing for him.
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2008
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