Should any future Patriots QB wear #11?

[SpiderFox53]

Why retire #11. Bledsoe didn't do THAT MUCH for this franchise. Honor his retirement, but don't retire the number of someone who couldn't win your team a Super Bowl.

By this logic, they should unretire all of the numbers that have been retired already as none of those players won the Patriots a Super Bowl either.

Come on, you can't base this conversation on just whether or not the player in question won a Super Bowl. That is only part of the equation, and not even the most important part.

I don't think #11 should be retired, but come on now.

 

[mcbee]

someday when they draft a QB who is tall, has a strong arm, is tall...gets sacked a lot, makes stupid decisions and who is tall they should give him #11

this gives me an idea for a thread

Exactly. Drew was overrated, did horribly in clutch situations (almost always an INT for him going for a 40 yard completion). Got sacked alot. Was a little pissy about losing "his" job, then left and played for other teams the last 5 years. Retire his number? Are you kidding? They should make him pay back some of his huge salaries. He sucked.

As a tribute to Drew, and to show no hard feelings, the Pats should draft a statue in round 7 every year for their "Drew Bledsoe pick". Maybe the Lincoln Memorial or Robert E Lee on a horse or something. They have as much mobility as he had. Human statue back there.

Retire his number because he "was symbolic of an era". OK, no problem. Let's retire 10 guys number from that "era". Only "fair". It's "the right thing to do". I like the "right thing to do" comment as though people who want to retire his stupid number are morally superior to those who can see the reality that he sucked and that there aren't enough jersey numbers to retire it for every guy who had a promise (even if unfulfilled) of not sucking.

 

[JoeSixPat]

Bledsoe didn't do THAT MUCH for this franchise.

Yeah - I really can't stand Gillette Stadium... I really wish they'd just kept the old stadium.

 

[ChoWZa]

Yeah - I really can't stand Gillette Stadium... I really wish they'd just kept the old stadium.

Thank Robert Kraft, not Drew Bledsoe.

 

[waspie (UK)]

I have to say no to Bledsoe, Brown or Bruschi.

Whilst all were/are undoubtedly great Patriots, I would have to say no to jersey retirement. We already have too many numbers retired - many of whom are no longer remembered by most Patriots fans. The current list reads:

Bruce Armstrong 78
Gino Cappelletti 20
Mike Haynes 40
Steve Nelson 57
John Hannah 73
Jim Lee Hunt 79
Bob Dee 89

I think the Packers have the best system - one of the oldest teams, and they've only ever retired 5 jerseys. They have other ways to honour their greats.

Roughly, their system is:

1. The Very Good (Vrabel, Harrison, Dillon). Team Hall of Fame with a little stadium museum connected to the pro shop.

2. The Great (Bruschi, Brown, Seymour, Bledsoe). Ring of Honor around the stadium, as well as team HOF. I'd put Grogan and Tippett here (at least until 56 makes the Hall - it's not been worn by any Pat since Andre)

3. The Legends (Hannah for now, to be joined by Brady and Vinatieri). Must make NFL HOF, and have achieved legendary status whilst a Patriot (before you yell at me for including Vinatieri whilst excluding Seymour). Jersey can be retired, ring of honor, and team hall of fame.

(I definitely stole a lot of this post from someone else on this board when the question of retiring #80 arose a few months back. Whoever you were, you were on the money).

 

[ChoWZa]

I have to say no to Bledsoe, Brown or Bruschi.

Whilst all were/are undoubtedly great Patriots, I would have to say no to jersey retirement. We already have too many numbers retired - many of whom are no longer remembered by most Patriots fans. The current list reads:

Bruce Armstrong 78
Gino Cappelletti 20
Mike Haynes 40
Steve Nelson 57
John Hannah 73
Jim Lee Hunt 79
Bob Dee 89

I think the Packers have the best system - one of the oldest teams, and they've only ever retired 5 jerseys. They have other ways to honour their greats.

Roughly, their system is:

1. The Very Good (Vrabel, Harrison, Dillon). Team Hall of Fame with a little stadium museum connected to the pro shop.

2. The Great (Bruschi, Brown, Seymour, Bledsoe). Ring of Honor around the stadium, as well as team HOF. I'd put Grogan and Tippett here (at least until 56 makes the Hall - it's not been worn by any Pat since Andre)

3. The Legends (Hannah for now, to be joined by Brady and Vinatieri). Must make NFL HOF, and have achieved legendary status whilst a Patriot (before you yell at me for including Vinatieri whilst excluding Seymour). Jersey can be retired, ring of honor, and team hall of fame.

(I definitely stole a lot of this post from someone else on this board when the question of retiring #80 arose a few months back. Whoever you were, you were on the money).

I agree, but I think some would argue for putting Brown/Seymour in the legend status. Only guarantee retirement is #12 though. I don't think you can keep retiring #'s like crazy.

 

[CTPatsFan]

Should we retire the Jersey number worn by Drew?,Do you think Kraft would even consider it?

I have mixed feelings,I would have said yes definately if he played here all his career but now I am not sure.

I can see us retiring ol' #80 soon but what about #11?

If he were HOF material I would say no. Drew was a very good QB, prototypical when drafted, but he stayed in the league too long and ruined his HOF chances.

 

[Ring 6]

I dont agree with the 'Bledsoe saved the franchise' stuff.
Bob Kraft and Bill Parcells pulled it out of the scrap heap, and Kraft and BB made it the model of all franchises.
The argument that we owe so much to Bledsoe presupposes that Parcells and Kraft would have led the team to further ignominy if they had not drafted Bledsoe. I strongly disagree.
Bledsoe was made the face of the franchise in a time when the MANAGEMENT of the team was improving it dramatically, so I understand the link. But we didnt 'become winners' because of Drew Bledsoe.
5-11
10-6
6-10
11-5
10-6
9-7
8-8
5-11
0-2
Those were our records in the Bledsoe era. That is a combined 64-66 record, a LOSING record.
Now, I dont think its accurate to blame Bledsoe for the LOSING record, but if you are putting him on a pedestal for being resposnible for the franchise becoming the model of winning, how do you reconcile that the team lost more than it won in his tenure?

My opinion of Bledsoe is this:
He was an overall mediocre QB on overall mediocre teams. For a few seasons he was a good qB on a good team, then both deteriorated. He was fortunate to be on a team that allowed him to build up stats that overstated his talent by throwing the ball more than anyone else.

IMO, by 1996-1997, he had the opportunity to become a very good QB, on very good teams, but the teams got worse, and a primary reason was the QB play. The 'demise' of the Carroll years was on offense, and when defenses began to try to exploit the QB position, the Pats stopped winning.

Sure, if your bar is set at the miserable years from 1987-1992 before he got here, you could feel indebted to him, but in retrospect, with what we have seen about ownership, with what we know about the defensive talent that was here, with what Pete Carroll has gone on to do, I think that from about mid-1998 on, Bledsoe held back this franchise. I set the bar higher for an overall #1 than to toil 9 years in mediocrity, with one magical (almost) season.
The exact same team that didn't win with Bledsoe went on to post what may be the best ever overall record for a 6 year period by replacing him with an unknown 2nd year player.

The best thing Bledsoe did for this franchise was get injured. Mo Lewis is more deserving of having his number retired by us.

 

[italian pat patriot]

He was part of the triumbrate that saved this franchise. He is statistically atop alot of the Pats records. He took this team to a SB and he helped out in 2001. Several Pro Bowls. He was the face of the franchise for nearly a decade. Between 94 and 99 he was as good as any QB in the league and there were some good ones. Put quite simply he took this franchise to the next level and brady went beyond.

very well said - i totally agree with your thinking

yes...also for me Drew was the face of the franchise surely for minimum 6-7 years - he put, correctly as you mentioned, the NE Patriots to the next level

the only thingh i do not think will happens is that # 11 will be not retired but i hope he will be remembered in a different way

for me, after Tom Brady, Drew have been the best qb the Pats ever had

 

[PromisedLand]

I dont agree with the 'Bledsoe saved the franchise' stuff.
Bob Kraft and Bill Parcells pulled it out of the scrap heap, and Kraft and BB made it the model of all franchises.
The argument that we owe so much to Bledsoe presupposes that Parcells and Kraft would have led the team to further ignominy if they had not drafted Bledsoe. I strongly disagree.
Bledsoe was made the face of the franchise in a time when the MANAGEMENT of the team was improving it dramatically, so I understand the link. But we didnt 'become winners' because of Drew Bledsoe.
5-11
10-6
6-10
11-5
10-6
9-7
8-8
5-11
0-2
Those were our records in the Bledsoe era. That is a combined 64-66 record, a LOSING record.
Now, I dont think its accurate to blame Bledsoe for the LOSING record, but if you are putting him on a pedestal for being resposnible for the franchise becoming the model of winning, how do you reconcile that the team lost more than it won in his tenure?

My opinion of Bledsoe is this:
He was an overall mediocre QB on overall mediocre teams. For a few seasons he was a good qB on a good team, then both deteriorated. He was fortunate to be on a team that allowed him to build up stats that overstated his talent by throwing the ball more than anyone else.

IMO, by 1996-1997, he had the opportunity to become a very good QB, on very good teams, but the teams got worse, and a primary reason was the QB play. The 'demise' of the Carroll years was on offense, and when defenses began to try to exploit the QB position, the Pats stopped winning.

Sure, if your bar is set at the miserable years from 1987-1992 before he got here, you could feel indebted to him, but in retrospect, with what we have seen about ownership, with what we know about the defensive talent that was here, with what Pete Carroll has gone on to do, I think that from about mid-1998 on, Bledsoe held back this franchise. I set the bar higher for an overall #1 than to toil 9 years in mediocrity, with one magical (almost) season.
The exact same team that didn't win with Bledsoe went on to post what may be the best ever overall record for a 6 year period by replacing him with an unknown 2nd year player.

The best thing Bledsoe did for this franchise was get injured. Mo Lewis is more deserving of having his number retired by us.

I agree with this line of thinking.

I also wonder what those who think Drew saved the franchise think he did that was so heroic. The team (under Kraft predecessor James Orthwein) had hired Bill Parcells immediately after the end of the 1992 season. Season ticket sales, which had been anemic prior to Parcells, immediately took off. This was before Bledsoe was even drafted.

Then, the team had the #1 overall pick and decided to use it on Bledsoe. Bledsoe came here and did, more or less, what you expect a #1 overall pick will do. But he didn't do anything that isn't expected of a #1 overall pick. And he got paid very handsomely (his $42M contract signed in 97 was the highest ever at the time) for what he did do. He used his God given talent adequately enough to pass for a lot of yards, but his career QB rating is in the mid-70's, which I think is a fair assessment of his overall play - a C or maybe a C+. So, where is the heroism?

If the Pats hadn't drafted him, if it had been some other #1 overall pick, that person would likely have helped the team as much or more as Bledsoe. Some other #1 overall picks from 1989 (4 years before Bledsoe) to 2003 (stopping before the past 3 drafts because it is commonly held that drafts cannot be evaluated for 3 years after they take place), we had the following #1 picks, besides Bledsoe: Russell Maryland. Keyshawn Johnson. Orlando Pace. Peyton Manning. Michael Vick. Carson Palmer. All of these guys were major contributors to their teams and multiple time Pro Bowlers, and at least two (Manning and Palmer) have been better quarterbacks than Bledsoe. So what Bledsoe did is just what he was supposed to do, nothing more, nothing less. If anyone deserves credit, it is the Pats front office (including Parcells) for drafting him.

 

[tedy hagler]

If we retire #11, then by the time the current crew is gone and retired, we may be looking at issuing numbers with 3 digits. I like Bledsoe and he will have a special place in Patriot lore. But he is not at the level of franchise greats like Hannah, Armstrong, etc.

I will object to anyone saying we should retire the blood vessel sheared by Mo Lewis.