Shotgun used more than half the snaps in 2007-2008

[BradyFTW!]

I already explained this to you, you ignored it. Go back and read the previous page, stop being lazy.

No sane person would agree with you that the Steelers were as pass happy as the Pats. They certainly didn't run shotgun over 50% of their plays, and almost all teams in the league pass more than they run, even the running-focused teams.

Last year, the Steelers dropped back to pass on a higher percentage of their snaps than the Patriots did. They ranked 23rd yards per game and 29th in yards per carry. They passed on 55% of plays, which is more frequently than the Pats (53%). To claim that the Steelers were a "lunch-pail, run-first team" is just stupid, not that I'd expect anything else out of you.

The Steelers were a pass-first offense (unless you think that a run-first team can finish fourth in the NFL in sacks allowed). Get over it, get a clue, and go get some therapy so you can get over your McDaniels obsession.

 

[Deus Irae]

Stop making this thread about an ex-coordinator. Stop ignoring or addressing the fact that over 50% of plays from shot-gun is moronic.

Keep blaming the D and make excuses. While you're at it, just ADMIT you were a Colts fan making the same excuses for the Colts from 2003-2004. The 01-04 Pats offenses had way crappier talent on almost all positions and still bailed out the D because they played an offense that had less risk and less success variation in key moments.

You need to really focus on the difference between opinions and facts.

 

[efin98]

A half-dozen empty posts by you in this thread so far, STILL no effort on your part to explain why shotgun on over 50% of the plays is a good thing.

Why? Gee maybe giving them a half second advance on the throw maybe. Or maybe giving the Brady/Cassel a bit of breathing room back there. Or maybe giving them a clearer view right off the bat

Any one of those could easily answer why they felt comfortable, but all that will get brushed aside until someone strokes your ego and gives you the answer that you want

 

[maverick4]

2008 data

Steelers passing attempts: 506
Steelers rushing attempts: 460
% of plays that were pass: 52.4

2008 Pittsburgh Steelers Statistics & Players - Pro-Football-Reference.com

Patriots passing attempts: 534
Patriots rushing attempts: 513
% of plays that were pass: 51.0

2008 New England Patriots Statistics & Players - Pro-Football-Reference.com

The focus of this thread is on the over 50% shotgun plays.

Thank you for backing up what I SAID on the previous page, that almost all teams in the NFL pass more than run, so that stat doesn't help you. And... this does nothing to support your defense that running specifically shotgun over 50% of the time is a good thing. The Steelers definitely didn't.

 

[Deus Irae]

Thank you for backing up what I SAID on the previous page, that almost all teams in the NFL pass more than run, so that stat doesn't help you. And... this does nothing to support your defense that running specifically shotgun over 50% of the time is a good thing. The Steelers definitely didn't.

Actually, it completely killed your assertion:

No sane person would agree with you that the Steelers were as pass happy as the Pats.

Clearly, the Steelers were more pass happy than the Patriots.

 

[BradyFTW!]

2008 data

Steelers passing attempts: 506
Steelers rushing attempts: 460
% of plays that were pass: 52.4

2008 Pittsburgh Steelers Statistics & Players - Pro-Football-Reference.com

Patriots passing attempts: 534
Patriots rushing attempts: 513
% of plays that were pass: 51.0

2008 New England Patriots Statistics & Players - Pro-Football-Reference.com

Did you add in sacks? That tilts the numbers further towards dropbacks vs. running plays.

 

[Rob0729]

I am starting be convinced that maverick doesn't actually hate McDaniels as much as he lets on and is just baiting everyone to get into these arguments for his own little warped entertainment. No one can be this blindly obsessed. Either this is true or there is hope for him. Either way, I am tired of playing into his little game. Good luck playing!

 

[Deus Irae]

Did you add in sacks? That tilts the numbers further towards dropbacks vs. running plays.

No, just attempts. Sacks were basically even, so I didn't want to open another false trail.

 

[maverick4]

Actually, it completely killed your assertion:
.

This thread is about shotgun over 50% of the plays, and on over 3/4 of the passing plays.

I already explained previously that almost all teams pass more than run, so you pulling up stats about pass/run ratio, ignoring the fact that other teams aren't using shotgun as much as clearly we do, doesn't really help your argument. Style of play goes deeper than the simplicity of counting pass/run ratio.

 

[efin98]

Actually, it completely killed your assertion:



Clearly, the Steelers were more pass happy than the Patriots.

Before he jumps on the amount MORE passing plays the Patriots did, it was 1,047 plays from scrimmage for the Patriots and 966 plays from scrimmage for the Steelers.

More chances for the Patriots, but lower percentage of them passes.

 

[maverick4]

More chances for the Patriots, but lower percentage of them passes.

Now about a dozen posts from you, STILL no justification from you about why it's smart for over 3/4 of our pass plays to be from shot gun, and for over 50% of all plays to be from shot gun?

The 'we run from shotgun argument' is crap. We overwhelmingly pass way more than run out of shotgun, which basically telegraphs to the D what we are going to do since we use shotgun so much for passing plays.

 

[BradyFTW!]

This thread is about shotgun over 50% of the plays, and on over 3/4 of the passing plays.

I already explained previously that almost all teams pass more than run, so you pulling up stats about pass/run ratio, ignoring the fact that other teams aren't using shotgun as much as clearly we do, doesn't really help your argument. Style of play goes deeper than the simplicity of counting pass/run ratio.

But it does completely kill your assertion that run-first teams are what win in the playoffs. That isn't true, and hasn't been for some time. To win a SB nowadays, you need a lethal vertical passing game, as the last 2 SBs have shown (first Moss/Burress trading TDs, then Fitzgerald/Holmes trading TDs). This makes it all the more ridiculous that you're criticizing the Pats for focusing too much on exactly that. They're doing what it takes to win, and they're winning more consistently than any other team in the NFL. Yet, because David Tyree caught a miracle pass in SB42, that somehow renders the entire philosophy invalid. There's a reason why people like Belichick are in charge instead of people like you.

 

[efin98]

Now about a dozen posts from you, STILL no justification from you about why it's smart for over 3/4 of our pass plays to be from shot gun, and for over 50% of all plays to be from shot gun?

Proving my point that when you can't refute something you go back to claiming nobody answered your question.

I already replied about that earlier. You missed it or more than likely you didn't like what I had to say and brushed it aside like I said you would.

The 'we run from shotgun argument' is crap. We overwhelmingly pass way more than run out
of shotgun, which basically telegraphs to the D what we are going to do since we use shotgun so much for passing plays.

And that claim is crap when if you are RUNNING out of it as well as PASSING they don't know what the hell you are going to do until the ball is actually thrown or in the running back's hands.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Now about a dozen posts from you, STILL no justification from you about why it's smart for over 3/4 of our pass plays to be from shot gun, and for over 50% of all plays to be from shot gun?

The 'we run from shotgun argument' is crap. We overwhelmingly pass way more than run out of shotgun, which basically telegraphs to the D what we are going to do since we use shotgun so much for passing plays.

The explanation is that we *can* run out of the shotgun, and therefore we don't have to very often, because as long as opposing defenses are respecting that, we can continue to pass. When they overplay the pass too significantly, we run, and that's when you see Kevin Faulk picking up 7+ yards. The rest of the time, we can use Welker and Faulk as dependable options to move the chains out of the shotgun, which mixes in with traditional formations and running plays to give us a lethally potent offense. Offenses have been evolving in this direction for going on 3 decades- it's not anyone else's fault that your mind can't keep up.

 

[maverick4]

But it does completely kill your assertion that run-first teams are what win in the playoffs. That isn't true, and hasn't been for some time. To win a SB nowadays, you need a lethal vertical passing game, as the last 2 SBs have shown (first Moss/Burress trading TDs, then Fitzgerald/Holmes trading TDs). .

No it doesn't. A run-focused team doesn't have to run more than pass, that is you inserting some false requirement about run/pass ratio. Most NFL teams haven't run more than they passed in a long long time, it doesn't mean the entire NFL is a pass-first or pass-priority league.

I agree with you that most championship teams need a deep threat, but you still haven't proven that the Giants or Steelers emphasized aggressive passing as the main weapon, as much as the Pats do.

You keep trying to say the Giants and Steelers were pass happy vertical teams, when they weren't. They had the ability, but were run-focused teams.

 

[BradyFTW!]

No it doesn't. A run-first team doesn't have to run more than pass, that is you inserting some false requirement. Most NFL teams haven't run more than they passed in a long long time, it doesn't mean the entire NFL is a pass-first or pass-priority league.

Yes it does.

 

[Deus Irae]

This thread is about shotgun over 50% of the plays, and on over 3/4 of the passing plays.

I already explained previously that almost all teams pass more than run, so you pulling up stats about pass/run ratio, ignoring the fact that other teams aren't using shotgun as much as clearly we do, doesn't really help your argument. Style of play goes deeper than the simplicity of counting pass/run ratio.

Really?

In 2007, New England became the first NFL team to run the shotgun formation on more than 50 percent of their plays, and that trend continued in 2008. Our data shows that teams are more effective and efficient in the shotgun – over the last two years, teams have averaged 5.9 yards per play from the shotgun, and 5.1 under center.

AGAIN, 27-5, and 16-0.

You are pissing and moaning about something which has no equal in NFL history to compare it to, and doing it in as ridiculous a manner possible.

 

[maverick4]

Yes it does.

Almost ALL teams, even run-focused teams, pass more than run.

The 2006 Superbowl Bears passed 514 times, ran 504 times.

The 2000 champion Baltimore Ravens passed 504 times against 511 rushes, a 47/53 ratio. Even in a clearly run-heavy team with a crappy QB it was almost 50/50. Almost all teams pass more than they run, even on run-heavy teams.

What more garbage do you have?

 

[maverick4]

Really?

Go and look at the first page. You're the McDaniels ball washer who brings him up every chance you get, the discussion was about something else before you joined. You're a hijacking troll who can't make a solid case for why using shotgun over 50% of all plays, and over 3/4 of passing plays, is a good thing.

 

[efin98]

Go and look at the first page. You're the McDaniels ball washer who brings him up every chance you get, the discussion was about something else before you joined. You're a hijacking troll who can't make a solid case for why using shotgun over 50% of all plays, and over 3/4 of passing plays, is a good thing.

He is a highjacking troll because he refuted your claims with facts?

You don't want any discussion, you want agreement.

Everyone just agree with the jerk and he will sleek back under his bridge again