Shotgun used more than half the snaps in 2007-2008

[LeonPowe]

Really, now that McDaniels isn't around to screw things up, the Patriots will most likely win the Super Bowl this year. No need arguing.

 

[maverick4]

The good news is, we don't have McDaniels around here anymore having Brady starting off the season throwing 50 times and getting injured in the first freaking game.

Funny how this thread was not even close to talking about our ex-coordinator, but as sure as death and taxes, his stats-obsessed ball-washing Colts-fans-in-disguise always come out of the woodwork anytime ANY criticism is made of the offense from 2005-2008.

 

[maverick4]

When it's the defense's fault for giving up those points, it's the offensive coordinator's fault?

Don't blame the defense. Our OFFENSE won those championships in 2001, 2003, and 2004, after our defense gave up late scores. Our offense from 2005-2008 was great at putting up cheap points when it didn't matter, we were like the A-Rod of offenses who blamed the defense for not doing what the 01-04 offenses did with way less talent.

I am focusing on STYLE of play, forget the coordinator. Look at the NBA, MLB, NFL. Most teams who care about flashy home runs or power hitters (MLB), fast breaks and 3 pointers (NBA), and pass happy spread offenses (NFL) rarely win championships. It's the teams which focus on timely hits and getting on base (MLB), inside post game (NBA), and ground game (NFL) which win most of the rings.

 

[LeonPowe]

And we have the running backs to have a successful ground game. But McDaniels simply didn't care. He must have had Brady and Moss on his fantasy team

 

[maverick4]

One thing about these trolls is they'll hijack threads.

Notice how not one of them even addressed the thread topic that over 50% of the overall plays were from shot gun, and how the vast majority of passing plays were shot gun.

 

[maverick4]

Also, it's hard to ignore the obvious connection:
http://www.patsfans.com/new-england...tom-brady-most-hit-qb-league-2006-2007-a.html

 

[BradyFTW!]

So, are you going to try to explain away the fact that the Steelers passed more often than the Pats did last year, or what?

Your claim that they're a "lunch-pail, run-first" offense is as clueless and fictional as just about everything else that you true to argue.

There are a lot of strange things on this board, but your bizarre and hateful fixation on McDaniels is just about the only one that has gone so far as to be truly pathetic.

 

[Rob0729]

Don't blame the defense. Our OFFENSE won those championships in 2001, 2003, and 2004, after our defense gave up late scores. Our offense from 2005-2008 was great at putting up cheap points when it didn't matter, we were like the A-Rod of offenses who blamed the defense for not doing what the 01-04 offenses did with way less talent.

I am focusing on STYLE of play, forget the coordinator. Look at the NBA, MLB, NFL. Most teams who care about flashy home runs or power hitters (MLB), fast breaks and 3 pointers (NBA), and pass happy spread offenses (NFL) rarely win championships. It's the teams which focus on timely hits and getting on base (MLB), inside post game (NBA), and ground game (NFL) which win most of the rings.

In 2004 Super Bowl, the offense scored the last time time with 12:29 left in the 4th quarter. They didn't score again in the fourth quarter.

In 2001, the Pats offense scored a total of 13 points. If the Pats defense didn't shutdown the Greatest Show on Turf and score their own TD, the final drive which made Brady and Vinatieri legends would never had happened.

And in 2005-2008 for the most part except for 2006, the defense was average and carried by Brady and the offense a lot. So you would have rather had a more conservative coordinator and gone 8-8 and missed the playoffs rather than Brady taking the offense on his back and carrying the defense in a lot of games to get the Pats to the playoffs. In 2003, the Pats offense was mediocre and the defense carried them to the Super Bowl. Now take that team and put the 2005 defense on it and you have a 6-10 to 8-8 team.

 

[efin98]

One thing about these trolls is they'll hijack threads.

Anyone else seeing the irony here? I've only been here a few months but even I see the irony of that claim

Notice how not one of them even addressed the thread topic that over 50% of the overall plays were from shot gun, and how the vast majority of passing plays were shot gun.

Classic bulletin board retreat: when you've lost your argument you brush aside all comments to the contrary and claim that nobody addressed the question

You know why nobody answered it? It's been hashed to death over and over since I've been here in multiple threads- this one isn't any different than any of the others about the last couple of years. Nothing new is being shone, nothing new is being brought up. It's a dead horse that you are bringing back to try to prove a point that you lost long ago.

 

[BradyFTW!]

In 2004 Super Bowl, the offense scored the last time time with 12:29 left in the 4th quarter. They didn't score again in the fourth quarter.

In 2001, the Pats offense scored a total of 13 points. If the Pats defense didn't shutdown the Greatest Show on Turf and score their own TD, the final drive which made Brady and Vinatieri legends would never had happened.

And in 2005-2008 for the most part except for 2006, the defense was average and carried by Brady and the offense a lot. So you would have rather had a more conservative coordinator and gone 8-8 and missed the playoffs rather than Brady taking the offense on his back and carrying the defense in a lot of games to get the Pats to the playoffs. In 2003, the Pats offense was mediocre and the defense carried them to the Super Bowl. Now take that team and put the 2005 defense on it and you have a 6-10 to 8-8 team.

Exactly- going back to 2000, the recipe for making the Super Bowl is to have either an elite defense or an elite passing game. You absolutely have to have one or the other, and if you have both, you're golden. The Pats have an elite passing game, but somehow mav got it in his head that we shouldn't use it, since he's super smart like that.

 

[maverick4]

So, are you going to try to explain away the fact that the Steelers passed more often than the Pats did last year, or what?

I already explained this to you, you ignored it. Go back and read the previous page, stop being lazy.

No sane person would agree with you that the Steelers were as pass happy as the Pats. They certainly didn't run shotgun over 50% of their plays, and almost all teams in the league pass more than they run, even the running-focused teams.

 

[maverick4]

and claim that nobody addressed the question

A half-dozen empty posts by you in this thread so far, STILL no effort on your part to explain why shotgun on over 50% of the plays is a good thing.

 

[Rob0729]

One thing about these trolls is they'll hijack threads.

Notice how not one of them even addressed the thread topic that over 50% of the overall plays were from shot gun, and how the vast majority of passing plays were shot gun.

And a vast majority of the running plays were from the shotgun. We have gone over this issue over and over again. You aren't savvy enough to play this game of "let me indirectly bash McDaniels and when I am called out on it, turn it around on my accusors". Your agenda is well known when it comes to McDaniels and offensive related issues.

Football Outsider is making a point that the shotgun as a base formation works for the Pats and you are twisting it into a negative. You are not using facts to support your argument. You are using that the Pats haven't won a Super Bowl since the 2004 season, but ignoring the problems the Pats have had in other areas of the game and putting all the blame on McDaniels and the offense. Was it McDaniels' fault the Pats had zero pass rush last year? Was it McDaniels fault that they had a hole in their defense that could be exploited by TEs over the the middle in 2006? Was it McDaneils' fault Bruschi had a stroke and Phifer retired leaving a big hole in the middle part of the defense in 2005?

 

[maverick4]

Just because no one else has done something doesn't mean it won't work.

Now you're all for Disney rah-rah type ideals? Back on Earth, in reality, it's pretty much indisputable that the more conservative approaches in MLB (timely hitting, not home runs), NBA (post game), and NFL (ground game) win the championships.

But, I guess you do need to ignore 250+ years of combined sports history to make your point.

 

[Rob0729]

A half-dozen empty posts by you in this thread so far, STILL no effort on your part to explain why shotgun on over 50% of the plays is a good thing.

Do you really need someone to explain why the offense in 2007 was the best in history and how according to Football Outsider it was the best the second half of 2008 even with Brady out and an inexperienced QB like Cassel at the helm is a good thing? Do you need a lesson on what being the best actually means?

 

[maverick4]

Was it McDaniels' fault the Pats had zero pass rush last year? Was it McDaniels fault that they had a hole in their defense that could be exploited by TEs over the the middle in 2006? Was it McDaneils' fault Bruschi had a stroke and Phifer retired leaving a big hole in the middle part of the defense in 2005?

Stop making this thread about an ex-coordinator. Stop ignoring or addressing the fact that over 50% of plays from shot-gun is moronic.

Keep blaming the D and make excuses. While you're at it, just ADMIT you were a Colts fan making the same excuses for the Colts from 2003-2004. The 01-04 Pats offenses had way crappier talent on almost all positions and still bailed out the D because they played an offense that had less risk and less success variation in key moments.

 

[efin98]

In 2004 Super Bowl, the offense scored the last time time with 12:29 left in the 4th quarter. They didn't score again in the fourth quarter.

In 2001, the Pats offense scored a total of 13 points. If the Pats defense didn't shutdown the Greatest Show on Turf and score their own TD, the final drive which made Brady and Vinatieri legends would never had happened.

And in 2005-2008 for the most part except for 2006, the defense was average and carried by Brady and the offense a lot. So you would have rather had a more conservative coordinator and gone 8-8 and missed the playoffs rather than Brady taking the offense on his back and carrying the defense in a lot of games to get the Pats to the playoffs. In 2003, the Pats offense was mediocre and the defense carried them to the Super Bowl. Now take that team and put the 2005 defense on it and you have a 6-10 to 8-8 team.

Funny, 2007 I could have sworn the defense laid eggs in a couple of those games and it took late scores by the offense to drag them out...Baltimore for one, Philly another...

 

[maverick4]

Do you need a lesson on what being the best actually means?

Being the best, especially when you talk about entire teams or offensive units, needs a ring to enter the discussion.

Otherwise, with your stats obsession you sound like an inconsistent hypocrite picking Brady over Manning, and not considering Marino or Favre as the best QB's ever.

 

[Deus Irae]

I already explained this to you, you ignored it. Go back and read the previous page, stop being lazy.

No sane person would agree with you that the Steelers were as pass happy as the Pats. They certainly didn't run shotgun over 50% of their plays, and almost all teams in the league pass more than they run, even the running-focused teams.

2008 data

Steelers passing attempts: 506
Steelers rushing attempts: 460
% of plays that were pass: 52.4

2008 Pittsburgh Steelers Statistics & Players - Pro-Football-Reference.com

Patriots passing attempts: 534
Patriots rushing attempts: 513
% of plays that were pass: 51.0

2008 New England Patriots Statistics & Players - Pro-Football-Reference.com

 

[maverick4]

Funny, 2007 I could have sworn the defense laid eggs in a couple of those games and it took late scores by the offense to drag them out...Baltimore for one, Philly another...

How about the 2006-2008 Playoffs????? Playoffs are a different animal from the regular season.