Short term thinking - are the Pats better off with a 94MM cap?

[fgssand]

If the agreement is signed, all teams get their 104-110MM cap to spend to. All teams will then have money to sign their own or go after other free agents. I realize in the long run for players such as Branch, Seymour, Koppen and others we need the dollars. However, in the short term, since I really believe that at least 5 of our 16 or so free agents are really good players, would it favor us if the deal is not signed? That way the amount of teams that have money to sign free agents is greatly reduced. Also, the teams that do have money are going to have their pick of the litter. It appears that without the higher cap, many more FA's will be added to the pool for the teams with money to go after. Our FA's may slip through hence reducing the deals they could make if teams did have money.

My point and question to everyone is: Do we stand a better chance of keeping AV, Willie Mcg (with a restructure), Neal and maybe even Givens if there is no new agreement??

The NFL will go on and there will be football. Let the greedy SOB's prey upon each other for a while. There is nothing to say that a new CBA cannot be agreed upon sometime next year or even after next season. At some point the NFL and the players will decide they need to get things under control. Maybe the poison pills need too inflict some of the pain they were intended before that can happen.

 

[hwc]

It's good and bad for the Pats.

The Pats are pretty tight against the $94.5 million cap and the lack of an extension prevents them from doing some things with Brady's contract that would make sense for this year.

On the other hand, the Pats have managed their cap responsibly. It must gaul the hell out of Kraft to see some of the big cap abusers receive a get out of jail free card. There are some teams that will be in a world of hurt without a CBA.

Just from an entertainment standpoint, it will be fun to watch Polian be totally screwed on the Manning and Harrison contracts. It seems likely that the Colts will defy the league and refuse to get down to the cap, choosing instead to file a lawsuit against the NFL. Classic Colts....the franchise version of the "Manning face". That will be interesting to follow. My guess is that the NFL owners come down like a ton of bricks on any franchise that ignores the cap tonight. Too many of them are having to make their own tough choices.

 

[hwc]

BTW, to answer your question: Vinatieri and Givens are gone no matter what. They always have been gone.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

BTW, to answer your question: Vinatieri and Givens are gone no matter what. They always have been gone.

Don't say that. It's the favorite topic of the mant Pats whiners who post here the same topic...over and over.

 

[fgssand]

BTW, to answer your question: Vinatieri and Givens are gone no matter what. They always have been gone.

Yes to DGiv....maybe to AV - he will give the Pats last look and I feel if we come close to matching, he stays because in the long run it is better for him.

 

[hwc]

Yes to DGiv....maybe to AV - he will give the Pats last look and I feel if we come close to matching, he stays because in the long run it is better for him.

If Vinatieri had any intention of staying, a long-term deal would have been done last year. He's been focused like a laser on entering the free agent auction for at least two years. Franchising him last year was not a good cap move for the Pats. I'm sure they made him a legitimate top of the market offer on a long term deal and, clearly, he wasn't interested. Actions speak louder than words.

 

[fgssand]

It's good and bad for the Pats.

The Pats are pretty tight against the $94.5 million cap and the lack of an extension prevents them from doing some things with Brady's contract that would make sense for this year.

On the other hand, the Pats have managed their cap responsibly. It must gaul the hell out of Kraft to see some of the big cap abusers receive a get out of jail free card. There are some teams that will be in a world of hurt without a CBA.

Just from an entertainment standpoint, it will be fun to watch Polian be totally screwed on the Manning and Harrison contracts. It seems likely that the Colts will defy the league and refuse to get down to the cap, choosing instead to file a lawsuit against the NFL. Classic Colts....the franchise version of the "Manning face". That will be interesting to follow. My guess is that the NFL owners come down like a ton of bricks on any franchise that ignores the cap tonight. Too many of them are having to make their own tough choices.

I agree, seeing the Colts in particular as well as Snyder squirm to get below the cap will be enjoyable.
To think that Irsay has a leg to stand on with a suit is utterly absurd, the owners agreed to operate under a certain set of rules, the Colts chose to gamble on a new deal getting done, looks as if that will not happen. What possible grounds can he think he will have to sue and win his case?

 

[pats1]

BTW, to answer your question: Vinatieri and Givens are gone no matter what. They always have been gone.

Man, I can't wait until they both re-sign. This will be in your inbox!

 

[hwc]

What possible grounds can he think he will have to sue and win his case?

Polian doesn't think he can win. He's just using it as a mechanism for ignoring the cap for as long as he can. That way, if a CBA is eventually signed, he will still have his players under contract, unlike the other 31 teams that cut veterans and made other painful moves to get under the cap. I think those owners are going to be rip-s%$t at the Colts.

 

[Miguel]

I vote NO.

My point and question to everyone is: Do we stand a better chance of keeping AV, Willie Mcg (with a restructure), Neal and maybe even Givens if there is no new agreement??

If there is no agreeement, there is no chance that Givens and Adam are on the Patriots' 2006 roster. Those two look ready and willing to venture onto the free agency market where teams in better cap position will quickly sign them.

I have no opinion on Neal.

If there is no new agreement, Willie has a great deal of leverage in dealing with the Pats. The Pats need to lower his cap number by a good deal in order to be a serious player in free agency. There is very little fat left on the Patriots' cap. Chad Brown and Tyrone Poole are the only easy cuts left.

If there is no agreement, the Patriots have to change their modus operandi in 2 ways.
1.) the Patriots have been one of the biggest users of NLTBE incentives over the past few years which is why their adjusted cap number have always been lower than the announced cap number since 2001. Either the Patriots will have to offer more upfront money to free agents and not use incentives or leave enough cap space just in case players do reach the incentives.
2.) the Patriots like to sign their draft picks to 5-year deals whenever possible. With signing bonus limited to 4-year proration, the Pats will be hard pressed to get their Round 2/Round 3 picks to agree to a 5-year deal. What could the Patriots offer them that would make them give up entering free agency one year earlier??

 

[hwc]

Miquel:

We can hear Belichick now...

"It is what it is. I don't make the rules. They tell us what the rules are and that's how we do it."

 

[shirtsleeve]

Polian doesn't think he can win. He's just using it as a mechanism for ignoring the cap for as long as he can. That way, if a CBA is eventually signed, he will still have his players under contract, unlike the other 31 teams that cut veterans and made other painful moves to get under the cap. I think those owners are going to be rip-s%$t at the Colts.

Penalize the Pr**k one game forfeit for every day over the cap.

 

[AzPatsFan]

Good Question

A very good question.

My opinion is in the short run (this month, and this season), it benefits the Patriots and rewards their past prudence and rectitude. I'd like to see some contenders have to dismantle themselves a bit, after betting that a new CBA would bail them out.

With all the Chicken Littles running around you'd actually think there was a problem, rather than that they have two full years to come to an agreement.

Much of the poison pill blather is just that, blather. Everyone is crying about a noncap 2007, playoff participants forbidden to sign FAs, and short time frames for amortization of SBs. I think its would give a swift kick of reality to some overpaid veterans to find themselves unemployed and then discover there are few to no one willing or able to hire them.

Its true those poison pills exist in the contract. The contract also says this season began last Wednesday or Thursday was it, I've already forgotten.

They simply set it aside, just as they will do with these "poison pill provisions" when they finally come to an agreement. It looks like they might be getting close and with only two year to go before the real deadline....

 

[flutie2phelan]

.... I think those owners are going to be rip-s%$t at the Colts.

Would this mean that the Colts cease to be the league's precious little princelings? No more favorable rules "emphasis" ... scheduling advantages ... instructed referees ?

 

[PatsSteve1]

2.) the Patriots like to sign their draft picks to 5-year deals whenever possible. With signing bonus limited to 4-year proration, the Pats will be hard pressed to get their Round 2/Round 3 picks to agree to a 5-year deal. What could the Patriots offer them that would make them give up entering free agency one year earlier??[/QUOTE]

* I thought with no extension, in 2007 players don't reach FA for 6 years instead of 4? Or do you just mean this year's DP's?

 

[patsfaninpa]

I think the short-term answer is it helps us this year. Not so much
that it helps the Pats. But, it puts the squeeze on some of our
key competitors; Colts,Dolphins,Broncos and Chiefs. I thought SD
would be ready to make a key push. I'm surprised they haven't
been able to work something out with Brees.

We'll have to use the draft to plug some holes. Not build depth.
Offensively, we need a wr and ol. I know what assuming does to
everyone. But, I think Willie works something out with the Pats.
Will give us enough to sign a WR(Jurevicius?) and a K.

My draft strategy. Trade down with Houston. For an extra
3. They have two at the top of Round 3. Select D. Hagan
with our Top Pick. OT with our 2nd pick(Whitworth or College)
Slide Kaczur to RG. Still have depth in Gorin and Hochstein.
Have 3 3rd round picks, 2 4th rounders and an early 5th to
get some depth on defense and a rb.

 

[PatsChamps363839]

The chances of keeping any of those guys seems bleak at the moment with teams like Indy signing receivers like Wayne to 6 million a year. Givens will go get his Indy type payday. He has his rings now he wants his financial security. This is the part of the NFL that drives a fan bonkers. Get attached to champion caliber players and watch them leave to an enemy team while they are in their prime.

 

[Miguel]

2.) the Patriots like to sign their draft picks to 5-year deals whenever possible. With signing bonus limited to 4-year proration, the Pats will be hard pressed to get their Round 2/Round 3 picks to agree to a 5-year deal. What could the Patriots offer them that would make them give up entering free agency one year earlier??

* I thought with no extension, in 2007 players don't reach FA for 6 years instead of 4? Or do you just mean this year's DP's?[/QUOTE]

Just this year's DP's.