Serious offers for Cassel yet? [mergedx2]

[arrellbee]

Re: Serious offers for Cassell yet?

How can there be ANY question ? If we get any kind of a draft pick trade offer for Cassell, we should trade him immediately and take the pick. We can always pick up one of the quality free agent veteran QBs currently on the street in case Brady goes down - maybe even 2 of them. Or we could almost certainly get a quality backup in the draft next year like a Davey or a Kingsbury. :bricks:

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Re: Serious offers for Cassell yet?

How can there be ANY question ? If we get any kind of a draft pick trade offer for Cassell, we should trade him immediately and take the pick. We can always pick up one of the quality free agent veteran QBs currently on the street in case Brady goes down - maybe even 2 of them. Or we could almost certainly get a quality backup in the draft next year like a Davey or a Kingsbury. :bricks:

And never mind currently, there will likely be several quality FA veterans available in just the next six weeks - Bledsoe, Brunnell, Brooks, Collins...

Hey, we could even see if Herm has a CB he'd be willing to swap for a QB. Or maybe Jeff Fisher has a #2WR he'd be willing to eat an $8M signing bonus to swap for an inexpensive backup with a great pedigree who is signed for peanuts through 2008 - when Vince Young will be ready to take over in TN.

I think arellbee may be on to something...

 

[BradyManny]

Re: Serious offers for Cassell yet?

Frankly, it doesn't make sense to me. First off, I seriously question your claim that the rest of the team is average at best.

I never really said that. If you take the MVP player off of any team, there is a good chance they will no longer be a Super Bowl contender. Look what happened when you took Seymour off this team last season, the defense flat out sucked and we were a .500 team. With Brady, it would be even more drastic.

But let's assume for the moment that it's true. Suppose next week Brady sprains an ankle and is out for 6 games. Let's say the team would go win 4 of those games with an above-average backup vs. 2 with a below-average backup. Those extra wins would likely be the difference in winning the division, or securing a bye or even in making the playoffs at all. That's huge.

Your first mistake was above-average backup vs. below-average backup, who is to say we can't just have an average run-of-the-mill type guy. My point is, that with Cassell in replace of Brady, the difference btwn say some veteran QB is not worth it. It's not 2 games, maybe it's 1, maybe it's not even any. Maybe it's the difference btwn losing by 7 and losing by 14. This team without Brady is not a great team - and that doesn't mean the rest of the team isn't great - it just means the team needs Brady to be great. If you took Michael Jordan off the Bulls, would it matter if you replaced him with a slightly above decent player or a decent player? No. That's how dependent on Tom Brady we are. Let's not let two off weeks fool us - let's look back and last year and realize that without Tom Brady, with any other QB at the helm say for a handful (Palmers, Mannings (ewww), etc) we would've had a horrible season.

I think we are minimizing what Brady does for this team in thinking Cassell could step in and bring us Ws. If it's Cassell or Tommy Maddox, it doesn't matter, the Pats without Brady are suddenly middle of the pack. Cassell wouldn't change that.

 

[arrellbee]

Re: Serious offers for Cassell yet?

I think we are minimizing what Brady does for this team in thinking Cassell could step in and bring us Ws. If it's Cassell or Tommy Maddox, it doesn't matter, the Pats without Brady are suddenly middle of the pack. Cassell wouldn't change that.

Of course. If we have any doubts about that, we only have to look at the Pats history. Look what happened the last time we had our star QB that took us to a superbowl go down with an injury and be replaced with a 6th round pick. Gosh.

 

[BradyManny]

Re: Serious offers for Cassell yet?

Of course. If we have any doubts about that, we only have to look at the Pats history. Look what happened the last time we had our star QB that took us to a superbowl go down with an injury and be replaced with a 6th round pick. Gosh.

LOL.

Seriously, though...that's blasphemous!!

 

[Oswlek]

Re: Serious offers for Cassell yet?

How can there be ANY question ? If we get any kind of a draft pick trade offer for Cassell, we should trade him immediately and take the pick. We can always pick up one of the quality free agent veteran QBs currently on the street in case Brady goes down - maybe even 2 of them. Or we could almost certainly get a quality backup in the draft next year like a Davey or a Kingsbury. :bricks:

I totally agree. I would much rather go into next year's draft with another 6th round crapshoot for a new backup than stick with Cassell. He isn't going to see the field as a Pat anyway, so we might as well move on and get a little younger.

Oh, and worst comes to worst, we can just throw Brown out there. He looked comfortable at QB in the preseason and we know that his arm is fresh.

 

[patpatriot]

Re: Serious offers for Cassell yet?

If you took Michael Jordan off the Bulls, would it matter if you replaced him with a slightly above decent player or a decent player? No. That's how dependent on Tom Brady we are. Let's not let two off weeks fool us - let's look back and last year and realize that without Tom Brady, with any other QB at the helm say for a handful (Palmers, Mannings (ewww), etc) we would've had a horrible season.

Excellent analogy! Still, think about it; without Jordan and + an above average replacemment, would the Bulls *still* not contend for the title? I think they might actually. Likewise, the Pats are now a power *running* team with the chance of having a *dominating* defence (if we can upgrade the DB with players who can actually tackle.)

What we are talking about here is a Chicago Bears clone. I really believe that Cassel approaches Grossman in ability so can we win with Cassel if we have alll the other running parts? I say Hell yes! The defense would have to kick it up a notch to be able to describe such a team as Superbowl-ready but Cassel is more than enough to lead such a team.

Already, Cassel is competitive with or better than the folllowing starting QB's:

Smith (SF)
Walter (Oak)
Frye (Cle)
Losman (Buf-maybe)
Huard (KC)
Grossman (Chi-maybe)
Kitna (Det)
Rodgers (GB)

All this kid lacks is experience. HHe can read defenses, manage the game, and he has a *Rocket* arm to fit the ball into NFL-Tight spaces. If you were the GM of any of these teams would you rather part with a #2 for a player with this kind of potential and low salary demands or would you rather risk an expensive (in all meanings of the word) #1 choice on your next QB?

It really doesn't matter because Cassel isn't going *anywhere* unless the Pats receive a lights-out offer. He's far too valuable to them for reasons noted above.

 

[tkayo]

Re: Serious offers for Cassell yet?

A few things to think about:

The Pats will maximize their value: The Titans could have traded Volek a year or two ago for a much higher pick, but they waited, and they didn't get much. So Cassel will eventually want to start somewhere, and he should be traded before he's an FA at the optimal time. Perhaps it's now? Perhaps the Raiders or Cowboys have offered some player or some pick that the Pats value higher than the Cassell?

If Brady went down, how many games do they think Cassell can win for them at that position? I'm not talking about how many games the Pats will win, but how many they'll win with Cassel vs. someone else. It seems that we're now more of a running team, so what kind of QB can we get by with?

 

[PATSNUTme]

Re: Serious offers for Cassell yet?

Why is this even being brought up?

I have not even heard a whisper, a rumor, or even speculation from any well known speculator about this.

But while I'm here I'll play along. Any team that wants to trade for Cassell better be willing to trade all of their picks. That's right, all seven. And if the have extra picks I want them too. If they have comp picks they can keep them.

 

[patpatriot]

Re: Serious offers for Cassell yet?

Why is this even being brought up?

For fun! The Volek trade probably got it started as Cassel compares with Volek quite favorably IMHO.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Re: Serious offers for Cassell yet?

No trade before the off-season. And I'm stunned at the Drew Bledsoe doom & gloom fans predicting the Pats' demise if Brady misses significant time. Heil Borges.

 

[patchick]

Re: Serious offers for Cassell yet?

Your first mistake was above-average backup vs. below-average backup, who is to say we can't just have an average run-of-the-mill type guy. My point is, that with Cassell in replace of Brady, the difference btwn say some veteran QB is not worth it.
...
If it's Cassell or Tommy Maddox, it doesn't matter, the Pats without Brady are suddenly middle of the pack. Cassell wouldn't change that.

If Brady went down, how many games do they think Cassell can win for them at that position? I'm not talking about how many games the Pats will win, but how many they'll win with Cassel vs. someone else. It seems that we're now more of a running team, so what kind of QB can we get by with?

Do you see a contradiction in some of these arguments for a trade? We should take advantage of Cassel's trade value because he's such a hot, valuable commodity that another team in need of a long-term starter is likely to give up a first-day draft pick for him. But Cassel's of no great value to the Pats because if Brady went down, he wouldn't do much better than any old JAG of the street.

So he's valuable to any team except the team whose offense he's been studying for the past year and a half? I don't get it.

 

[BradyManny]

Re: Serious offers for Cassell yet?

No trade before the off-season. And I'm stunned at the Drew Bledsoe doom & gloom fans predicting the Pats' demise if Brady misses significant time. Heil Borges.

Are you serious? Hey, I use to love Bledsoe, but you gotta be kidding me to even mention him in the same breath as Brady. We're talking about a guy who has led us to three frikkin Super Bowls.

If anything, I'm stunned by you Michael Bishop fans predicting that if Brady misses significant time that a backup who has yet to play a minute of meaningless football in his pro career is going to step in and provide us with quality QB play.

EDIT: Also, the "but Tom Brady was a 6th round pick! You could've said all of this about Tom Brady!" argument is asinine. Lightning doesn't strike twice. I personally don't think Matt Cassel is anything more special than Scott Zolak (nothing against Scott Zolak, loved the guy). If some team out there thinks he's more, then you ought to trade him and get as much as you can out of that team.

 

[arrellbee]

Re: Serious offers for Cassell yet?

Are you serious? Hey, I use to love Bledsoe, but you gotta be kidding me to even mention him in the same breath as Brady. We're talking about a guy who has led us to three frikkin Super Bowls.

So 5 years after the fact you are confident that Brady was OK as a replacement for Bledsoe. So what did you think AT THE TIME when a 6th round draft pick who had yet to play a minute of meaningful football in his pro career took over from the QB who had led the Patriots to a superbowl ?

If anything, I'm stunned by you Michael Bishop fans predicting that if Brady misses significant time that a backup who has yet to play a minute of meaningless football in his pro career is going to step in and provide us with quality QB play.

There is no way of knowing what results the Patriots might have if Cassell were to be the QB of the team. Pardon me, but I don't think you can have any crystal ball where you can make any kind of meaningful prediction - one way or the other. The thing you seem to ignore completely is that there is an example right in front of your face in the person of Tom Brady that says you can't know what would happen. Not only that, but I think there are other examples just as well - I believe Kurt Warner and Jake Delhomme could be regarded as other examples. On the flip side of the coin, history is littered with 1st pick overall and high first round quarterbacks who have had stellar college careers and have TOTALLY flunked in the NFL. Somehow or another, I think I will trust Belichick's judgment over yours that Cassel has the potential to step in and do a decent job if Brady can't play. If you think you have a crystal ball, why don't you tell us which of the top three QBs in this year's draft will be solid NFL starters with a long career ? I would be fascinated to know what you see in the crystal ball and which ONE of those guys you would take instead of Cassel.

 

[BradyManny]

Re: Serious offers for Cassell yet?

I would be fascinated to know what you see in the crystal ball and which ONE of those guys you would take instead of Cassel.

Holy smokes. What are you Cassels brother or something? No, at the time I didn't think Brady would be the God that he is now. None of us did. That was my point. Brady is a friggin hero, there are many people on this board, ie, seemingly you, who think that Cassel could likewise step in and be a hero. I think that's horribly, grossly unrealistic.

There is no way of knowing what results the Patriots might have if Cassell were to be the QB of the team.

Right, but am I not free to conjecture? Isn't that the point of this board? Obviously neither of us have anything better to do right now, so I'm going to feel free to put in my .02. Belichick might think that Cassel might step in and be average, but he also might realize that the Patriots with an average quarterback suddenly aren't Super Bowl contenders like they were when they had Tom Brady running the show. I'm not comfortable with ANY qb other than Brady at the helm in NE, and I guess I'll concede that I'm no more uncomfortable with Cassel as backup as anyone else. That's right, I have NO problems with Cassel being our backup.

The thing you seem to ignore completely is that there is an example right in front of your face in the person of Tom Brady that says you can't know what would happen.

Yeah, well there's also a million examples of QBs who were fine in preseason and sucked it up in the pros. Tom Brady is an EXCEPTION to the rule of 6th or 7th round picks turning into Legends. Belichick doesn't bank on exceptions.

Let me just make myself clear, b/c obviously I'm not doing that. I don't think Matt Cassel would suck like a Michael Bishop or a Rohan Davey. I do, however, feel that there are decent odds he wouldn't be anything better than an average backup if given the chance to prove himself. I don't see any reason why you likewise have some "magical fancy crystal ball" that tells you he will be better than average.

Nor do I see any reason why this team needs anything more than an average backup, that is the entire point of my argument. Why do you think we traded Drew Bledsoe? We knew he would be a more than adequate backup - and that was exactly the point - he would be too adequate. Another team could use him as a starter. If some team out there has deluded itself like you have into thinking that Matt Cassel has shown anything worthy of being considered for a starting role, then yes, we should trade him, b/c to us, he is no more than an average backup.

To put it another way, if the day before Mo Lewis offered up that hit on Drew Bledsoe, would you have traded Tom Brady for a 2nd rounder?? (the fact that people are actually throwing a #2 out there is crazytalk) Tom Brady is the reason why we think Cassel has any potential b/c of their similarities (similar looking tall white males who were backups in college and drafted late, etc., etc.).

To me, this whole Cassel worship is just another form of Belichick worship. It's "oh, Belichick can make anybody work" and it's probably all under this subconcious and faulty premise that "Belichick made Brady" and the same type of thinking that led to "Brady only excels in a certain system" type of crap. And it's all wrong.

 

[arrellbee]

Re: Serious offers for Cassell yet?

BradyManny2344
I'm not sure whose post you are responding to. You seem to think it was mine. What didn't you understand about my statement:
"There is no way of knowing what results the Patriots might have if Cassell were to be the QB of the team."

But the whole point to my post was:
"Pardon me, but I don't think you can have any crystal ball where you can make any kind of meaningful prediction - one way or the other."

Play GM all you want. Make all the posts you want. But it doesn't mean anybody else has to think you know what you are talking about or that for some unknown reason you are in position to tell Belichick and Pioli what they should do.

I'd still like to know which of the three top QBs from this last draft you think you'd rather have than Cassel. It's a calibration for your crystal ball.

p.s. Lightning does strike twice in the same place. Ask farmers in the midwest who have lost two barns in the same spot to lightning strikes. IIRC, there has been at least one instance where a particular farm lost three barns.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Re: Serious offers for Cassell yet?

BradyManny2344
I'm not sure whose post you are responding to. You seem to think it was mine. What didn't you understand about my statement:
"There is no way of knowing what results the Patriots might have if Cassell were to be the QB of the team."

But the whole point to my post was:
"Pardon me, but I don't think you can have any crystal ball where you can make any kind of meaningful prediction - one way or the other."

Play GM all you want. Make all the posts you want. But it doesn't mean anybody else has to think you know what you are talking about or that for some unknown reason you are in position to tell Belichick and Pioli what they should do.

I'd still like to know which of the three top QBs from this last draft you think you'd rather have than Cassel. It's a calibration for your crystal ball.

p.s. Lightning does strike twice in the same place. Ask farmers in the midwest who have lost two barns in the same spot to lightning strikes. IIRC, there has been at least one instance where a particular farm lost three barns.

Good luck with BManny, his second sight is too sharp for either myself or Belichick.

 

[BradyManny]

Re: Serious offers for Cassell yet?

EDIT: Nvr mind, moving on.

 

[Terry Glenn is a cowgirl]

Re: Serious offers for Cassell yet?

Does the backup on this team really matter all that much? If Tom Brady gets injured, the team would not be anywhere near Super Bowl worthy, let alone playoff worthy. It would be a .500 team at best, even in our division. In the scenario in which Tom Brady does get injured [the thought truly pains me] - the team would basically be treading water until Tom gets back.

Didn't we all think this of Tom Brady when Drew Bledsoe went down????

 

[Big_Os_Hometown]

Re: Serious offers for Cassell yet?

Does the backup on this team really matter all that much? If Tom Brady gets injured, the team would not be anywhere near Super Bowl worthy, let alone playoff worthy. It would be a .500 team at best, even in our division.

Jeff Hostetler