Serioulsy, How bad will the Pats secondary get tourched Sunday?

[BradyFTW!]

The other 3 games? Gee. Ninkovich was solid against Baltimore. He actually did his job against Kolb and Locker by making sure they stayed in the pocket and didn't run wide.

My recollection of what Kolb and Locker did, specifically how consistently they escaped to the right when Jones flushed them out of the pocket, seems to be a whole lot different than yours. If Ninkovich had been getting any kind of consistent pressure in either of those games, the Pats would have had a lot more sacks (and there's a good chance they'd be 4-0).

That said, I don't hate the guy. He's pretty good as a 3-4 OLB. As a down lineman, though, I don't think he's a good fit at all. He's smaller than Dwight Freeney and an unremarkable pass rusher. He's the clear weak spot on this defensive line.

 

[DaBruinz]

My recollection of what Kolb and Locker did, specifically how consistently they escaped to the right when Jones flushed them out of the pocket, seems to be a whole lot different than yours. If Ninkovich had been getting any kind of consistent pressure in either of those games, the Pats would have had a lot more sacks (and there's a good chance they'd be 4-0).

That said, I don't hate the guy. He's pretty good as a 3-4 OLB. As a down lineman, though, I don't think he's a good fit at all. He's smaller than Dwight Freeney and an unremarkable pass rusher. He's the clear weak spot on this defensive line.

That's because they didn't consistently escape to the right. In fact, Locker only went to the right, twice, the entire game. BOTH on called plays..

 

[DaBruinz]

I know what his jobs are and yes he is good at 2-gapping/stopping the run/containing. But as a DE his job is also to put pressure on the passer during passing plays. And imo he fails miserably at that the majority of the time. And in today's league disrupting the pass is just as, if not more, important than containing the run.

I just don't feel Ninkovich is the answer for this defense. That's all.

So, ignore the fact that he's got an OT on him and he's getting chipped by a TE or RB half the time. Good job.

Sorry, but pushing the OT back towards the QB is not the definition of failure. And that is what he was doing both in Baltimore and against Buffalo.

There is more to pass defense than just sacks..

 

[Rob0729]

As been pointed out in this thread and by Ted Johnson on 98.5 today, Manning is not attacking the deep parts of the field that much. He is throwing a lot of 5-10 yard passes and not much else. I am not all that worried about the secondary getting torched.

What worries me most is the potential of missed tackles and blown assignments short. I am more worried about Tamme catching a ball for 5-10 yards in the seam or Stokley over the middle and taking it 30 yards than Manning completing a pass to Thomas 25-30 yards down the field.

I don't expect the secondary to get torched on Sunday. It isn't the way Manning is playing. I actually think the Pats may be better off forcing Manning to try to test the Pats' secondary down the field because I think that will expose how far away from "The Old Manning" he truly is. He hides any decline in his passing skills by staying primarily to passes under 10 yards.

In fact, that is why he played so poorly against the Falcons. They forced him to throw deep and got three deep INTs from him (all three were on passes over 20 yards). He only has 4 completed passes for passes thrown over 20 yard so far this season.

 

[CKG0913]

I'll answer with my own question, Can the Pats D prevent our offense from running?
No running, and it is easier. Regardless, Manning will make plays. How many of them, is up to your Run D and pass rush. Both of those being decent, you'll get obvious passing plays.

 

[Silver Blue&Red]

Is there any point at all to this thread? Is there any reason for it to exist, ie anything that you wish to actually discuss, or do you just like complaining about stuff to strangers on the internet?

Seriously? This is the most relevent topic I've seen on this forum in quite awhile. There are the all loving, "McCourty and company cant do any wrong" crowd and the "McCourty and Co. have gotta go" crowd, I've been staying out of it because it seems these threads turn into a GG or JI type of argument. Too much "I know more about FB than you". Everyone has their own opinion. I dont think shoving your own opinion is going to change anyone else's. IMO the secondary has been bad,(not quite as bad as I might scream with emotion during a game thread),but with a little improvement this season. Chung was horrible. Not turning to play the ball is an ongoing issue in the secondary. Hopefully they will continue to improve. BB is really trying to instill confidence in McCourty. And we have to believe he knows best. I guess we'll see as the season progresses.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

Peyton's had great games against this team before....funny thing is that Brady still holds the advantage in the Manning vs. Brady meetings

So in that retrospect,it doesn't necessarily mean the Pats will lose if Peyton throws for 400

You should focus on T-E-A-M before deciding the Pats fate.....who cares what Manning accomplishes if the Pats move to 3-2??

 

[Dutchmaster617]

First of all, please show where I said that the Pass defense was great. You can't because I didn't. Secondly, people who ONLY look at the stats, the way YOU are doing are missing most everything. Like the actual games themselves.

Next, here is some reality for you. After the first four games last season, here are the pertinent stats from the defense.

Passing Yards Allowed: 1507 (avg of 376.75)
Rushing Yards allowed: 431 (avg. of 107.75)
Sacks: 6
Interceptions: 7

Using your "ON PACE" method of judging things, this is how it would have been:

Passing Yards allowed: 6028
Rushing Yards allowed: 1724
Sacks: 24
Interceptions 28

Here is what REALITY was:
Passing Yards allowed: 4703 (293.5 avg)
Rushing Yards allowed: 1874 (117.125)
Sacks: 40
Interceptions: 23

Can you see the differences? The Pass defense improved significantly. The rush defense took a slight step backwards.

So, currently, the Pats are doing BETTER than last year's numbers allowing 281.5 passing yards per game and significantly better against the run.

The Pats have had a significant change over on their D-line with Carter and Anderson moving on and Jones and Ninkovich taking over. Not to mention the Pats moving to the 4-3 almost exclusively. They also have 3 new safeties in Wilson, Gregory and Ebner (two of whom are rookies).

So, you'll forgive me if I'm not all doom and gloom like yourself and making claims that just aren't supported by reality. I can fully understand that this defense gets better as the season goes along. That the players GEL. That the rookies get better as they learn the system. That the veterans who are new to the system get better as they adjust to the system.

YOU, Bassman, are the one with your head in the sand, refusing to see reality. The NUMBERS clearly show that.

Umm, don't you ever factor in the running we are doing? 8th in the league, Brady was throwing 400+ yards in half of those games, the defense isn't much better we just have a more balanced offense.

 

[Ring 6]

That is BS also. Shows a complete lack of actually watching the games. Ninkovich has been getting pressure on the QBs despite having to face a tackle and getting chipped by a TE or RB half the time. Go back and watch the All-22 and you'll see it.

If that is your opinion after watching the tape, then we have very different opinions of what 'getting pressure' means. I don't think the QBs he was trying to get pressure on would agree with you here.
Doesn't mean he is hopeless, he had one dynamite stretch last week, but his play this year has been a D- at best.

 

[Ring 6]

Umm, don't you ever factor in the running we are doing? 8th in the league, Brady was throwing 400+ yards in half of those games, the defense isn't much better we just have a more balanced offense.

Taking a look at the number of plays defensed and the per play numbers makes your entire point dubious.

 

[UK_Pat37]

If that is your opinion after watching the tape, then we have very different opinions of what 'getting pressure' means. I don't think the QBs he was trying to get pressure on would agree with you here.
Doesn't mean he is hopeless, he had one dynamite stretch last week, but his play this year has been a D- at best.

Ninkovich has looked like a JAG. As always, solid in run support and setting the edge but not so great when it comes to rushing the passer...so far this year anyway. He has gad one game this year where he didn't record a single stat.

He had a very good game against the Bills but he has certainly lost containment on at least a couple of plays. He's been underwhelming and is not the answer at LDE. We lack a true LDE right now and I pray Bequette or Cunningham can push or more reps in that spot.

 

[Ring 6]

I'll answer with my own question, Can the Pats D prevent our offense from running?
No running, and it is easier. Regardless, Manning will make plays. How many of them, is up to your Run D and pass rush. Both of those being decent, you'll get obvious passing plays.

With the rule changes that have happened any game where any offense doesn't move the ball reasonably effectively is an anomoly.
Other than teams with awful QBs, and even then mostly just when they face good defenses, there are many easy completions out there to be had.
DBs are at a disadvantage in covering, OL can legally hold compared to what the rules used to be (albeit long ago) QBs have little worry about getting hit, at least viciously, and WRs know they get 2 steps after the catch or the defender probably gets fined.
Go back to the rules of the 70s and 3000 passing yards would lead the league. As it is 5000 may become routine.

 

[ATippett56]

Ninkovich has looked like a JAG. As always, solid in run support and setting the edge but not so great when it comes to rushing the passer...so far this year anyway. He has gad one game this year where he didn't record a single stat.

He had a very good game against the Bills but he has certainly lost containment on at least a couple of plays. He's been underwhelming and is not the answer at RDE. We lack a true RDE right now and I pray Bequette or Cunningham can push or more reps in that spot.

RDE or LDE?

 

[UK_Pat37]

RDE or LDE?

LDE...my bad!

 

[Ring 6]

Ninkovich has looked like a JAG. As always, solid in run support and setting the edge but not so great when it comes to rushing the passer...so far this year anyway. He has gad one game this year where he didn't record a single stat.

Actually he has been swallowed up in the running game quite a bit, but he is really, really undersized for the LDE spot.
He also makes the mistake of losing contain, usually on the QB and allowing a big run outside of him every 2-3 games.

He had a very good game against the Bills but he has certainly lost containment on at least a couple of plays. He's been underwhelming and is not the answer at RDE. We lack a true RDE right now and I pray Bequette or Cunningham can push or more reps in that spot.

I think you mean LDE unless you are moving Jones, which I dont think is what you are saying.
My solution would be to play Cunningham there in the base, with Deaderick or Brace subbing in on some first downs and 2nd and shorts for better run D.
Cunningham moving inside in nickel/dime is a good idea, IMO. Not so sure anyone else we have would be better than Ninkovich there, but trying Scott, or even Hightower in the subs can't really make it worse.
Perhaps Ninko should be playing LB exclusively.

 

[Ring 6]

So, ignore the fact that he's got an OT on him and he's getting chipped by a TE or RB half the time. Good job.

Isn't he a DE?
How do you excuse poor play at DE by describing what the position entails?

Sorry, but pushing the OT back towards the QB is not the definition of failure.

Perhaps not, but he hasn't been doing that either.

And that is what he was doing both in Baltimore and against Buffalo.

There is more to pass defense than just sacks..

The pass rush from the LDE position has been abysmal.
I'm sorry if you like the guy who gets that report card, but its the honest one.

 

[Water Boy]

My guess Peyton ends up 380 yards 3 TDs, 0 Ints.

I'll take that wager

 

[DaBruinz]

Umm, don't you ever factor in the running we are doing? 8th in the league, Brady was throwing 400+ yards in half of those games, the defense isn't much better we just have a more balanced offense.

*sigh* I was showing Bassman how STATS don't tell the whole story. If you can't understand that then you are the issue..

Now, something you seem to have missed is that in the first 4 games last season, the Pats had 488 yards rushing. Which was good for 11th in the league then. That is a whopping 88 yards less than the 576 they have now. Yes, the offense is more balanced, but the defense IS better than it was to START last season. And I stand by my statement that it is significantly better when compared to the START of last season.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

This isn't the old Peyton who was always looking downfield. Most of his passes this year are caught within five or so yards of Scrimmage, so I don't look for a lot of torching. Maybe some worldclass deking and dunking, but not a lot of torching.

 

[Water Boy]

I'll take that wager

I win!!!!!!!!