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Sep. 11 planner waterboarded 183 times

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by reflexblue, Apr 20, 2009.

  1. reflexblue

    reflexblue PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I would think that it would lose its effectiveness after a few times.... The person being waterboarded would realize they didn't intend to kill him. Its not lke electricution, thumbscrews or white hot pokers or other forms of torture tht causes extreme pain....Maybe i'm wrong. Or every new interogater wanted they're shot at these guys.

    Sept. 11 planner waterboarded 183 times: report

    used the waterboarding technique on Khalid Sheik Mohammed, the admitted planner of the September 11 attacks, 183 times and 83 times on another al Qaeda suspect, The New York Times said on Sunday.

    The Times said a 2005 Justice Department memorandum showed that Abu Zubaydah, the first prisoner questioned in the CIA's overseas detention program in August 2002, was waterboarded 83 times, although a former CIA officer had told news media he had been subjected to only 35 seconds underwater before talking.....
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2009
  2. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I suspect after a few times it was more about retribution than trying to obtain intelligence...
  3. reflexblue

    reflexblue PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Yeah almost as soon as i posted it i had that thought and was going to edit go back and put it in the thread but i got busy. I imagine every new interogater wanted to practice on these guys.
  4. tanked_as_usual

    tanked_as_usual Banned

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    its a crude form of brainwashing..........different people have different breaking points.....they will do it until they get information they deem reliable........something about lying and inconsistency under constant pressure.........once the answers they want are consistent, they believe they are getting the truth.......beyond that its just breaking the person......he'll probably tie your shoe without being told to do so

    but then again, there's the simple joy of torturing the guy who came up with the plot for 9/11..........I'd say he got what he deserved
  5. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I bet the relatives of those people who were roasted alive on 9/11 would loved to have been there and got in on a little of that "waterboarding"......
  6. PressCoverage

    PressCoverage Banned

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    I wonder how many times that taxi driver Dilawar also got waterboarded and suffered other forms of torture that led to his death... He must have "deserved it" too, huh torture advocate?
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2009
  7. cupofjoe1962

    cupofjoe1962 Rookie

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    Water
    Country.....

    Water
    Country......

    Water
    Country.....

    Have some fun !


    I shed no tears for the terrorist.
    I knew 2 people who died on 9/11.
  8. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    We all knew some people who died on that day, does that make this level of torture justifiable??? Does it bring the dead back??? No quite sure why you would waterboard someone this many times..
  9. tanked_as_usual

    tanked_as_usual Banned

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    he deserved it more than my close friend peter hashem
  10. tanked_as_usual

    tanked_as_usual Banned

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    there's alot you don't get
  11. Wildo7

    Wildo7 Totally Full of It

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    How do you know?
  12. tanked_as_usual

    tanked_as_usual Banned

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    I did the math
  13. PatsFanInEaglesLand

    PatsFanInEaglesLand Rookie

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    Yes.

    No.

    For fun.
  14. Wildo7

    Wildo7 Totally Full of It

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    What math is that exactly? That your friends life is worth more than a cab driver's in another country? I disagree, sorry.
  15. Wildo7

    Wildo7 Totally Full of It

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    Gotta love that moral high ground you claim.
  16. PatsFanInEaglesLand

    PatsFanInEaglesLand Rookie

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    Have you ever seen a terrorist waterboarded? It is pretty freaking cool, as they struggle for what they think is their last breath you can't help but laugh at them. Good times.
  17. Wildo7

    Wildo7 Totally Full of It

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    Is this supposed to get me all riled up? How boring.
  18. PatsFanInEaglesLand

    PatsFanInEaglesLand Rookie

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    Just gave you my opinion.

    I think they got what they deserved and what needed to be done.
  19. Wildo7

    Wildo7 Totally Full of It

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    The problem is that when you legitimize torture and rely on tribal warlords and military personal to round up "suspects" you will torture innocents, and that makes us no different from them.
  20. Stokes

    Stokes Rookie

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    Anybody know where to find the memo they reference?
  21. Wildo7

    Wildo7 Totally Full of It

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    Last edited: Apr 20, 2009
  22. PatsFanInEaglesLand

    PatsFanInEaglesLand Rookie

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    I agree, but we disagree on what exactly torture is.
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2009
  23. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ---- JAG ----- PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #87 Jersey


    I wouldn't have done it that many times ... I would have mixed it up a bit ... saving the waterboarding for special occasions.
  24. tanked_as_usual

    tanked_as_usual Banned

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    who cares what you think......

    but I do believe the cab drivers life was worth more than yours
  25. tanked_as_usual

    tanked_as_usual Banned

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    I'd still be waterboarding him now..........10x a day for the rest of his life

    according to the libbies, he'd be used to it by now, and might even like it........but I don't believe that.......he'd be calling me allah by the time I was done with him
  26. PatsFanInVa

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    I've read a couple dubious statements here:

    - They got what they deserved for the real planners, a maybe on this one, but I'm not God... are you?;

    - and what needed to be done absolutely not. I'm pretty sure you've got whatever intel you're getting way before #183.

    - Tanked spews out "something about..." followed by some imagined half-remembered third-hand knowledge of torture as a means of interrogation. I found it highly dubious, see second point above.

    Really, I am not a professional torturer. If any of you guys are, feel free to identify yourselves. However, I do know that the intelligence community does not think it's a good way to get reliable information.

    If you are getting information every time you waterboard the guy, and feel time #182 didn't get him to his breaking point, I suppose you reach that conclusion by running down the leads you obtained. So at least 182 times, the waterboarding was not the effective tactic it was painted as, at least in the minds of the waterboarders.

    Here's another thought:

    There is a school of thought on torture, usually engaged in by sadists who quite enjoy their work, that goes like this:

    First you get resistance.

    Then you get some story that doesn't check out.

    Then you get a story that does check out in parts.

    Then you get the whole story.

    Here's where it gets nasty.

    Then when he thinks he's told you the whole story, you go for the point where he's spewing out anything, truth, lies, whatever, hoping you will stop, and you chase down every lead, just in case he spewed out something he forgot before in his miserable and desperate state.

    But I would submit that if #1-182 didn't get him there, #183 sure as hell didn't.

    Beyond these facts, there is the question of whether the U.S. should be engaged in torture. The so-called "ticking bomb" scenario, in which Keiffer Sutherland repeatedly tells people how much he hates doing what he needs to do, then tortures them, because an actual attack is underway... NEVER HAPPENS. The "ticking bomb" was certainly not the case with the Gitmo detainees.

    And beyond that fact, the lefties here are quite right to ask about the cab driver who got essentially the same treatment.

    And if they didn't know it was wrong, why all the happy horseshi* about how everybody breaks after 45 seconds?

    Frankly, "because it's fun", in tandem with appeals to lost loved ones from 9/11, disgusts me.

    9/11 is not a blank check to become whatever we hate about the other guy.

    Because human suffering is fun? Hey, he's the bad guy, sure. But when it's fun to see them suffer, all you've done is given license to your own sadism based on a superstructure of self-justification. Torquemada felt the same way, I'm sure.

    So if that's the way you view torture, hell, get yourself a playmate with a safeword, and keep it consensual. Your analysis is psychosexual, not political.

    PFnV
  27. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The guy who ran the CIA after the waterboarding was stopped, said it yielded very valuable including info that led to the capture of KSM, among others.

    Is the memo real, if so who leaked it? Why? perhaps due to the pushback from Obama releasing the other memos last week.

    I fon't know if I would take a NYT story without the physical memo at face value.
  28. Wildo7

    Wildo7 Totally Full of It

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    lol. you seriously are a little kid sometimes, it's great.
  29. reflexblue

    reflexblue PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Coming...I know you are, but what am I. :rolleyes:
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2009
  30. tanked_as_usual

    tanked_as_usual Banned

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    so my stuff is dubious ........ but yours is what?

    repetition is a huge part of any means to extract information........

    so stop being a jackarse that thinks you know better.......you're not.....you just make yourself sound like a hypocritical idiot

    but getting back to the torture......never said it was fun......but based on the 9/11, and the kinds of things that came out of the same people (the daniel pearl beheading), I have absolutely no problems with giving the military or the CIA carte blanche to do whatever they feel they should do.......

    somebody has to do the dirty work so all you wusses can go drink your lattes without worrying about a building over your head having a jet flown into it

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