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Senate will debate $25 billion auto bill Monday

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by reflexblue, Nov 14, 2008.

  1. reflexblue

    reflexblue PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #91 Jersey

    I hope this isn't a redundant thread. But it seems that W and the pubs may be changing their mind on bailing out the auto industry. I hope there are strings attached concering increased milage, and quality. But that maybe a pipe dream on my part.

    Senate will debate $25 billion auto bill Monday - Yahoo! News

    WASHINGTON – Struggling to keep alive a government bailout of the troubled auto industry, key supporters offered concessions Friday — including reducing its $25 billion size. The White House came out firmly against a Democratic plan to carve it out of a $700 billion rescue package for financial companies.

    The measure gained important ground among Republicans on Capitol Hill, where at least a dozen to 15 GOP votes in the Senate will be needed to prevent opponents from blocking it in the Senate. The focal vote on that could occur as early as next Wednesday.

    Sen. Kit Bond of Missouri became the second Republican to publicly voice support for the idea, joining Sen. George Voinovich of Ohio. Both states have major auto plants. Several other GOP senators signaled they might accept a rescue for Detroit's Big Three if it contained strict conditions for the beleaguered companies, including management and salary changes, concessions from their powerful unions, and a commitment to making more fuel-efficient vehicles........con
  2. sdaniels7114

    sdaniels7114 Rookie

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    They need to talk about an exit strategy. What has to happen to deal with the crisis is one thing, but the crisis will pass and at that point the government must get out of the car business.
  3. reflexblue

    reflexblue PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #91 Jersey

    Agreed, but before they go they have to set some standards its their big chance. Just setting a stringent fuel efficiancy standard would go a long way into what type of vehical produced.
  4. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    Increased mileage does nothing (or little) when faced with costs per worker being about double what Japanese car makers make. It's not a sustainable business model unless the unions play along.
  5. reflexblue

    reflexblue PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #91 Jersey

    Yeah I posted this last week. No western welfare state that provides an infrastructure to take care of its workers. I.E. unemployment insurance, health care etc can compete with eastern countries like Korea or China that don't have any overheard as far as their workers go. Pure capitalism. I find it hard to believe that the Japanese don't take care of their workers. Unions will have to play along,the problem has to be attacked from all sides. Poeple willhave to sacrifice if they want to have a job.
    I lived in Pittsburgh for a couple of years and happened to meet an old steel worker. We started talking about what pittsburgh use to be like. He flat came out and said WE the unionised steel workers ruined the industry. He said they became greedy,more and more demanding with each new contract, He said the last one he was involved with they demanded managment to provide everyone with new Norelco razors,and to be able to start washing up at 2:15 45 minutes before the end of the shift. This behavior drove the steel industry under. At least partly,because at the same time these guys were asking for razors and almost an hour of free time workers in foriegn countries were happy just to have a job makeing steel. They would at that point never dream of asking for anything more.
  6. patsfan13

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    After Jan 20 the car companies will get their cash.
  7. sdaniels7114

    sdaniels7114 Rookie

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    I'm not seeing it as a particularly big chance. Heck, Congress and the President got their 'big chance' when the Constitution was ratified. All it takes is a law at any time; but for now the focus should be on making them competitive.

    Its a hierarchy of needs thing as I see it. The reason Honda and Toyota are kicking Ford and GM's asses isn't because their workers are better. No nation in the world has a workforce more willing to work to get ahead than the USA. Once we level the playing field the US auto industry will thrive and there will be plenty of money to implement the environmental things that need to be done.

    James Carville said it best. Its always the economy, first. You can't do anything else until that's right.
  8. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign On the Roster

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    Unfortunately, replacing union workers or getting rid of unions is only half the answer. The cost of living in the US is so much higher than any where else on earth that we have to pay our workers more.

    Anyone getting a decent job expects to be able to buy a home and be able to provide adequate health care for his family. Let's assume we decide it's worth trying to re-vamp the industry. Do you think people who decide to work for these companies should live in near poverty...i.e. live in apartments with no health care and little retirement?

    A "career" type job must offer compensation that will provide for these things whether they are in the form of bennies or hourly wages.
  9. DarrylS

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    Have to remember one thing here, is that these things are agreed to by management.. so it takes two to tango.

    In any case like this there is an effort to demonize the UAW rank and file... big numbers are thrown out relative to their salary.. from what I can see they make about $35.00 an hour..

    United Auto Worker Salaries | SimplyHired..

    if I had the time I would look up the stats from Dept. of Labor website.. but these numbers all seem too high.

    With that being said, should they give back, yes.. but on the same fashion that the Wall Street folks were asked to give back, and in the same fashion that the execs from GM/Ford/Chrysler are giving back.. the worker is a convenient excuse, for the faux pas of these huge companies.. while the reality is that there is plenty of shared blame..
  10. DarrylS

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    This does not factor in benefits, so unless the benefit factor is about 300% the previously quoted numbers are way off..

    From the UAW contract with Chrysler...

    New Contract Protects Wages, Provides Four Lump Sums - UAW/Chrysler Hourly Contract 2007

    the rate for assemblers is $28.00 per hour

    For GM

    Wages - UAW/GM Contract 2007

    it is about $26.00 per hour

    For ford..

    New Contract Protects Wages, Provides Four Lump Sums - UAW/Ford Hourly Contract 2007

    it is about $26.00 per hour

    More info, which indicates they are loosing ground to foreign counterparts..

    UAW Losing Pay Edge: Foreign Automakers' Bonuses Boost Wages in U.S. Plants as Detroit Car Companies Struggle: aftermarket News


    Another source...

    UAW wages - GLG News

    Last edited: Nov 15, 2008
  11. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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  12. patsfan13

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    They will get the bailout, when Obama takes office.

    This IMO would be better than the current proposal:

    from a blogger at Free Republic:


    I would prefer NO BAILOUT this however would be better than just giving ther $$ to Det and the UAW.
  13. weswelker#83

    weswelker#83 Rookie

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  14. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The current crisis was formulated by Fannie, Freddie and the CRA which has dem fingerprints all over it including R Emmanuel who made millions while Freddie and Frannie were being run into the fround.
  15. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign On the Roster

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    No matter what is done, the unions have got to go. Otherwise, Detroit is still incapable of competing as per RW's recent post.
  16. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Unions gave 400M to the dems the unions are going nowhere. They will get what they want.


    The dems will pass the "card check" which will do away with secret ballot for union votes. The Unions are getting a huge payoff from Obama.
  17. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    A blog is more reliable than the UAW Contracts previously posted??.. to think that the benefits package is 2X the rate of pay.. makes no sense.. the numbers you provide are probably inclusive the the built in overtime.. which from what i understand has been curtailed...
  18. weswelker#83

    weswelker#83 Rookie

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    Stop smoking Ganja..... WHO WAS IN CHARGE FOR THE LAST 8 YEARS ??????

    [​IMG]
  19. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    I assumed that retirement costs were factored into the $73. If the union wants to keep the jobs they'd better start negotiating a workable, sustainable deal not asking the rest of the country to pay for the current bad deal.
  20. sdaniels7114

    sdaniels7114 Rookie

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    Interesting stuff here.

    I'm afraid the source that article's based on has to be bought, though. So take the link with a grain of salt.

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