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Senate set to consider fence bill

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Real World, Sep 19, 2006.

  1. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    This guy is an idiot (Bill Frist). I remember him standing in front of the media as they approved the largest budget in the earth's history, and had the nerve to say "there is no more fat to cut off this budget" HA! What a looser. Frist and Co. are prime examples of why the GOP is in shambles. Idiotic leadership. Terrorism is the only thing taping them together. That, and the fact that the Democratic party has been hijacked by liberal morons who have no message but to bend over and take it in the azz by all who have a hand out, or want us to convert to islam. I really feel bad for genuine democrats. Liberals like Howard Dean, Al Gore, Uncle Teddy, and John Kerry have done more to hurt the party and help the GOP than they realize.

    Anyhow, I've been screaming for a fence for 10 years now. The members in another forum chastized me for saying we needed one. Clearly, a fence is a must. The problem is, these clown sell-outs don't want to piss off the business's that employ illegal labor, nor the largest growing voter block in the country, Latino's. Let me make my position on illegal (important word here, ILLEGAL) immigration: it needs to stop immidiately. Build a fence, put soldiers on the border, shoot to kill. Whatever you have to do, just seal the border. Now, once you've done that, increase LEGAL immigration. I have no problem with documented foreignors coming here, working, and making a better lives for themselves. My problem is with illegal, undocumented people coming, and sucking our social services dry.

    Also, I am vehemently opposed to Amnesty. You cannot reward criminal behavior while punishing those who have properly respected our laws, and waited in line.

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/national/20060919-122133-1476r.htm

    Senate set to consider fence bill

    By Charles Hurt
    THE WASHINGTON TIMES
    September 19, 2006


    The Senate, which has been the major obstacle to strict border-security legislation this year, will take up a bill this week that calls for constructing 700more miles of fencing along the U.S.-Mexico border.
    "It's time to secure the border with Mexico," Majority Leader Bill Frist said last night before filing the parliamentary motions to force the House-passed bill onto the Senate floor in a final effort to get a major immigration bill on the president's desk before the elections.
     
  2. Pujo

    Pujo Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    I have nothing against the concept of a fence, my only problem with it is I think it would be a complete waste of money. I would guess the people willing to risk their lives to illegally come over here aren't going to be deterred by a fence. They'll go around it (we can't afford to fence the ENTIRE border, and keep that fence maintained), they'll swim/raft up the Pacific, they'll dig tunnels, they'll come here as guests and then overstay, etc. What percentage of the immigrants do you think a fence will stop? I'm guessing illegal immigration from Mexico would drop 5-10% at most, which is really a drop in the bucket when you consider the cost of the fence.
     
  3. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    Of course a fence alone won't solve the problem. Stopping the illegal invasion, and it is an invasion, requires a comprehensive plan, just like most other issues. We'd need to stop providing social services to illegals, go after employers who hire them, invoice the Mexican government for costs related to the invasion that they're directing, and seal the border once and for all. In all honesty, it's quite simple. All it takes is some leadership, and some principled decision making. Of course it won't happen. All of the politicians, mainly the ones you see on TV, are too willing to sell their souls for the Latino vote, or to corporations. It's quite appalling.

    BTW, we can clearly afford a fence. A fence would help the border patrol with there job. There are vast portions of our border that are wide open. Do doors and walls keep burglars out of your house? Not by themselves they don't, but they certainly do make a gigantic difference.
     
  4. Pujo

    Pujo Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    What do you mean invoicing the Mexican government? How would you force them to pay?
     
  5. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Just a question: Can't people come to the United States on a tourist visa and then never leave? A fence would help keep out the truly undesirable, i.e., those who show up on some sort of list, but I'm not sure how much of an impact it would have on illegal immigration. I'm not against a fence, but has anyone really figured out how much of an impact it would have?
     
  6. FreeTedWilliams

    FreeTedWilliams pfadmins PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    The Mexicans who make enough money to qualify for a visa, are not the ones that are here! A fence would help greatly, what would really help is a capitalist government in Mexico!!
     
  7. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    Look up the Minutemen, and see what a human fence was able to accomplish. Now, use simple common sense (we know you can Patters), and picture your house without walls, or your yard without a fence. Could people still get in if they wanted to? Yes. Could they simply walk in as if it were an open field with no barriers? Nope.

    Please drive thru.
     
  8. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    Look up the Minutemen, and see what a human fence was able to accomplish. Now, use simple common sense (we know you can Patters), and picture your house without walls, or your yard without a fence. Could people still get in if they wanted to? Yes. Could they simply walk in as if it were an open field with no barriers? Nope.

    As for the tourist visa stuff, yes, people could come here and never leave. There is very little you could do to prevent that. That is where you need to have a comprehensive policy. If employers were held accountable for hiring illegals, and social services were only given to those who had legal proof of stay, then what incentive would the visa breakers have to be here? As currently constituted, illegals go into town and buy a BS social security number. With that, usually purchased for $50 or $100, they get the keys to the candy store.
     
  9. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    I mean sending them a bill. For example, everytime a pregnant mexican (or any country for that matter) woman comes here, gives birth in our hospitals, and costs our country $100k in medical costs, we bill them. When an illegal comes accross the border, commits another crime (crossing illegally was crime #1), and we're forced to incarcerate, prosecute, and jail or deport said person, we bill them. If they don't pay, we just might have to tax some of the money that illegals send back home, or we'll remove some of the luxuries they recieve through NAFTA. Tarrifs anyone? Now, of course, I would only begin billing them after I'd had a sit down with them explaining that the border was to be sealed, and they were to no longer conspire with smuggler, civillians, and drug dealers. As a concession I'd simply allow more LEGAL immigration from Mexico.
     
  10. Chevy

    Chevy Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    #75 Jersey

    I would love to see an immediate tax on all funds transfers to foreign nations ... Say 40%. Or, at the least, require Western Union et al to document the sender's SSN/Green Card Number. No identification, no send.
     
  11. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    As usual NEM, you're blinders are getting in the way. This is an issue that requires a comprehensive plan. It requires more than just building a fence, punishing employers, and militarizing the border. As it currently stands, you could hire an illegal without knowingly doing so. Why? Cuz most illegals ave a SS card & number, or have obtained a state drivers license. As an employer, when someone comes to me for a job, and provides a license, I must assume that he is a citizen. I can't accuse him of being illegal or he'll sue me for discrimination. I can suspect someone is illegal and give a job to someone else, but it's not as concrete as the sheeple think. It's why the border needs to be sealed. It's why social services should only be provided when citizenship is proven. It's why State need to be required to follow a minimum set of safe guards to guarantee that their licenses are kosher. Then we could lay serious penalties on those who hire illegals, cuz then there is no excuse. A comprehensive plan is needed. The problem with the politicians is that they will never due whats right, and only see future votes. Each party is selling out to secure the Latino vote. It's a fgging joke. Bush is an azzhole sell-out on immigration. Just like the Dems & McCain. Amnesty is something that may dictate who I vote for in 2008. Immigration, like terrorism in 2004, is fast becoming the critical election issue for me. I am stern about not voting for sell-outs.
     
  12. Pujo

    Pujo Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    They'd just send cash by mail.
     
  13. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    And what happens when those cash filled envelopes reach they Mexican Postal Service?

    :rofl:
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2006
  14. QuiGon

    QuiGon Banned

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    So help me God, I agree with Nemmy-boy..!! Right now the conservatives and big-business are fighting for the soul of the Republican party because they are on opposite sides of this contentious issue. Let's hope the conservatives win.

    I actually wouldn't be so staunchly opposed to illegal immigration if they simply had to pay taxes like the rest of us.
     
  15. QuiGon

    QuiGon Banned

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    Yeah, that's a safe strategy. Sending cash by mail to Mexico or Latin America. great idea. :rolleyes:
     
  16. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    Illegal immigration is unacceptable. Only Legal immigration can work. For obvious reasons you need to know who it is that is coming into, working in, and living in your country. I have no problem with increasing LEGAL immigration. Either way, the amount of individuals we allow into this country has to be monitored. There has to be guildlines in place. You obviously do not want to let elderly people in as they do not work, and are a massive drain on social services. You'd have to limit the amount of low skilled workers with families in, as their wages would not support the cost of the many children they bring in, resulting in a drain on schools & medical care. You'd want a higher amount of skilled immigrants, be it by education or by trade, as skilled workers earn more, provide a specific service, and are more likely to finance their lives independently, all while making an easier transition as they tend to be of a higher intellect.

    These are all points that are never discussed in the MSM. The only thing I keep hearing is the nonsensicle justification of "they are just searching for a better life". So aren't I. How does letting massive waves of undocumented, poorly skilled, uneducated, social service draining criminals into this country help my search for a better life?
     

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