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Semi OT: Pioli's Paranoia? (merged X2)

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  1. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I always thought Scott made a huge mistake in hiring that self absorbed little egomaniac golfer Haley as his first HC'ing decision. I had no idea how badly he screwed up. Worst possible hire for a GM being brought in to change a culture of entitlement that permeated from the deepest recesses of that organization to the know it all insider mediots who covered them.

    Long and twisted but interesting read. Apparently Haley thought he was being bugged... I really hope the JETS hire this unaccountable clown. I'd love to watch him further destroy any chemistry or accountability those knuckleheads might have delusions about developing in the swamp.

    Arrowhead anxiety: Turnover off the field causes concern - KansasCity.com
  2. Tunescribe

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    #61 Jersey

    Re: Semi OT: Paranoia runs deep and apparently parallel to lack of accountability

    What's funny is Green Beans fans hoping Haley is brought in to instill discipline as Wrecks' "bad cop" designated enforcer.
  3. AndyJohnson

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    Re: Semi OT: Paranoia runs deep and apparently parallel to lack of accountability

    Hard to determine how valid the article is, but it makes Pioli sound worse than Haley. In fact, it gives a lot of examples of other employees supporting the belief that Haley should have been paranoid. Take it for what its worth. There is a fine line between a disciplined management style and a micromanaging style that sacrifices the big picture to control the minutiae, and you simply can't tell from this article where that line is in KC, but there is more in the article the way it is written to say Pioli is the problem than Haley is.
  4. convertedpatsfan

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    Re: Semi OT: Paranoia runs deep and apparently parallel to lack of accountability

    I disagree. I think it speaks volumes about an inefficient organization being forced to change, and the usual resistance that goes with these types of cultural changes. Pioli even outright asked ownership about the potential organizational dysfunction before taking the job.

    In the War Room, they talk about Chiefs scouts replying to emails in meetings and laughing at silly photos during film sessions. To go from that to the ideal Patriots level is several leaps, and it's no surprise there is severe resistance. Lots of people in the organization are basically being told they're ineffective, useless, or have to change the way they do pretty much everything.

    I'm not concerned what the Todd Haleys of the world think about the way we do business. They can point their finger at others when they're embarrassed, they can make up ridiculous rumours if it makes them feel better. We won't be attractive to every single player in the league. But the ones who come here, the ones who want to get better and be the best, appreciate those things. The slackers and losers won't and don't. I don't give a crap what they think.
  5. tobias funke

    tobias funke Rookie

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    Re: Semi OT: Paranoia runs deep and apparently parallel to lack of accountability

    There are plenty of quotes defending the new regime as well.

    And if I got fired for being lazy or a weak link, I'm sure I'd be bitter, also.

    It's a multi-million dollar business. Why shouldn't people be accountable for everything? Most people have worked in places with longtime employees who don't give a **** or put in any effort, because they know they'll probably never get fired.

    I don't care either way, really, but the article didn't really sway my opinion about anyone involved. I already believed Haley was nuts, and Pioli controlling and detail-oriented.
  6. MoLewisrocks

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    Re: Semi OT: Paranoia runs deep and apparently parallel to lack of accountability

    You can't be that gullible after all these years... This is the article Borges has been waiting to write about Bill for 12 years, like the precursor his boys Hobson and Mannix took a preview whack at based on all the credible insight they had received courtesy of their Cleveland brethran and their sources the moment he was hired. Disgruntled former employees are generally entitled lackeys who couldn't cut it in a results driven enterprise.
  7. AndyJohnson

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    Re: Semi OT: Paranoia runs deep and apparently parallel to lack of accountability

    I was commenting on the article and qualified that I questioned its validity.
    I fully understand accountablity and ridding an organization of the wrong attitudes.
    That said, unless, like you, you go into the article with a preconceived notion, it paints a worse picture of Pioli than Haley.
    Its only description of Haley is that he felt he was being monitored and it went on the back up the concern with numerous examples of other employees who felt that way.
    As far as Pioli it gave a number of examples that imply he may be more caught up in micromanaging small details than addressing the big picture.
    Whehter the article and its criticisms have any validity is another debate, but there is no question the article itself is more damning of Pioli than Haley.
  8. AndyJohnson

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    Re: Semi OT: Paranoia runs deep and apparently parallel to lack of accountability

    I am commenting on the article, not the management style.
    From your post I was expecting an article that slammed Haley, and I found one that was not very complementary of Pioli.
    How is it gullible to state what the article says?

    If you think it was written to support Pioli, right back at you on the gullibility
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2012
  9. AndyJohnson

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    Re: Semi OT: Paranoia runs deep and apparently parallel to lack of accountability

    Who is we?
    None of the things you listed are in the article. I was commenting on what light the article puts Haley and Pioli in. I don't know how you could perceive this article as pro-Pioli
  10. convertedpatsfan

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    #12 Jersey

    Re: Semi OT: Paranoia runs deep and apparently parallel to lack of accountability

    I'm basing this on more than just the article itself, but I see you're talking specifically about that article. But for what it's worth, it's basically a hack job and I don't think anyone could put any value into any of it.
  11. tobias funke

    tobias funke Rookie

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    Re: Semi OT: Paranoia runs deep and apparently parallel to lack of accountability

    Except that is a purely subjective opinion.

    So by definition there is question.

    I find it very easy to read articles with a critical eye when they include a good dose of quotes from "unnamed sources" and "former employees". The article didn't change any of my 'preconceived notions' not because of them, but simply because it wasn't a very good article.
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2012
  12. AndyJohnson

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    Re: Semi OT: Paranoia runs deep and apparently parallel to lack of accountability

    And I am not saying it should. I am saying the article is written as a negative piece about the organization, not about Haley.
    Of course, I agree with Pioli's philosophical approach. It does not mean, though, that questions raised about his over attention to detail, or people skills are made up because he has the right macro approach.
  13. tobias funke

    tobias funke Rookie

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    Re: Semi OT: Paranoia runs deep and apparently parallel to lack of accountability

    I'm not saying they're made up. I don't doubt that the people interviewed said those things.

    The issue is credibility and understanding. A glorified secretary doesn't believe the football team is better because of Pioli's micromanagement. What is that supposed to mean to me? What position of authority is she speaking from? Just because someone feels a certain way doesn't make them right.
  14. AzPatsFan

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    Re: Semi OT: Paranoia runs deep and apparently parallel to lack of accountability

    Scott Pioli did not hire Haley; he inherited him. He could have cleaned house, but he didn't, trusting that Haley would provide some continuity, and solve the problem himself, over time. Haley did.
  15. tobias funke

    tobias funke Rookie

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    Re: Semi OT: Paranoia runs deep and apparently parallel to lack of accountability

    This isn't true at all.

    Pioli hired Haley.

    Todd Haley takes Kansas City Chiefs coaching job - ESPN

    Last edited: Jan 15, 2012
  16. MoLewisrocks

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    Re: Semi OT: Paranoia runs deep and apparently parallel to lack of accountability

    Not sure what planet you posted that from...

    He inherited Herm Edwards. He wanted Kirk Ferentz. They had always planned on teaming up when the timing was right. Only Pioli got impatient to strike out on his own and meanwhile Ferentz kids starting attending Iowa and Kirk decided he wanted remain there to coach them. Maybe he thought RAC would jump at the shot to move back to a HC situation, but he oddly stuck it out in Cleveland with Mangini and got his hip replaced. Charlie didn't get fired for another season. They say timing is everything. Haley was his fallback because he was on the JETS staff when Pioli landed there with Bill. Tried to make the connection to the system, although Haley was really never part of it. He was barely a Parcell's guy. Mostly he was his father's son, and his father was an old Steelers personnel guy who had migrated to the JETS. Nepotism is rampant in the game. Haley was Pioli's fallback, but he was a lousy one because he lacks the temperement to be a HC. He almost got Cassel killed that first season, and he planted seeds of doubt about him from the outset in the minds of the fanbase. Charlie salvaged the situation the following year until not surprisingly he and the golf pro couldn't work together. This year he effed up not just the offense but the whole team. That's why he's gone.
  17. blackglass3

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    Re: Semi OT: Paranoia runs deep and apparently parallel to lack of accountability

    Man, what a bunch of whiny crybabies. A secretary asking "How does this make us a better football team?" is a freakin joke. The last line is also very telling: "There was a time it was a great place." Yeah, I would imagine working a job at a pro football team with no accountability was a pretty choice gig...the NERVE of Pioli trying to change the culture and mindset of "Losing is ok".
  18. MoLewisrocks

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    Re: Semi OT: Paranoia runs deep and apparently parallel to lack of accountability

    Not surprisingly Michael Silver, who has been taking it on the chin for his defense of Hue Jackson and lambasting of the Raiders for seemingly finally trying to hire a football guy and qualified GM candidate to overhaul that mess of an organization Al created in his dotage, apparently thinks this article was spot on and no one will want to work for Pioli now and Haley has been vindicated...

    So many of todays mediots were born to blather on Yahoo and backslap each other on twitter.
  19. DarrylS

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    Re: Semi OT: Paranoia runs deep and apparently parallel to lack of accountability

    My take is somewhat different, Pioli coming into an organization that was top heavy with a lot of dead weight, cleans house to make the Chiefs a more streamlined organization...

    Along the way he pysses a lot of folks off who obviously are angry, an article is written, but the Chiefs did not allow Pioli to contribute to the article, so they can print whatever they want to.... a better article would have been to allow Pioli to counter. Whenever an article deals with unnamed sources then it deserves a double flus....

    This is a whole lot of whining and bytching about how business can be done in the NFL authored by a guy who may be KC's version of Ron Borges..
  20. MoLewisrocks

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    Re: Semi OT: Paranoia runs deep and apparently parallel to lack of accountability

    That dead weight probably talked to the media a lot, before Scott arrived, too. That's how a lot of FO fringe players get ahead in the NFL, quid pro quo with their mediot toadies talking them up. Seems Haley wanted to play that game but his paranoia made it harder to. That he seemed inclined to go that route is grounds enough for firing his ass, the piss poor job he did aside. And this piece has to be giving even the JETS trepidation about hiring this tool, or Wisenhut second thoughts about re-hiring him. Scott won't dignify this crap any more than Bill will. That just gives it legs in a fight you can't win. Speaking of which, winning is what settles it. So that will be Scott's focus from here on out. Getting 53 guys and a support and coaching staff all rowing in the same direction. RAC should help with that. They have the talent, maybe not to win it all, but to win that division and compete in the post season. Haley was just a setback or a roadblock and once removed they once again have a decent shot at achieving their goals. If they fail again, then Scott will be looking for work as justifiably as Haley is now and most of those hacks who lost their cushy NFL gigs in KC still are.

    Too many mediots suffer from Matt Millen syndrome, although they appear to be oblivious to how that all turned out. Simply observing something for years doesn't qualify you to run a franchise.
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2012
  21. robertweathers

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    Semi OT: Pioli's Paranoia?

    We've all worked in jobs (particulary in high-tech) where our employer was a bit on the anal side. This article paints Pioli on par with the CIA.

    I wonder how much Pioli has implemented in KC that was done in Foxboro?

    My take is that he is going a bit overboard and many of the axed employees have an agenda.

    This one is funny..

    This one too...

    Arrowhead anxiety: Turnover off the field causes concern - KansasCity.com
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2012
  22. MoLewisrocks

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  23. robertweathers

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    Sorry didn't see your post yesterday.

    I think the truth is somewhere is the middle.

    -Lots of PO'ed ex employees with an axe to grind.
    -Haley is nuts.
    -SP is a 1st time org leader and is putting his stamp on things. He may have gone overboard on a few items and will learn that true accountability and attention to detail isn't achieved by calling out people who drop candy wrappers. (if true).

    We heard similar stories out of CLE when BB took over. Many of them were created by the mediots who were now denied the level of access to the team that they had previously.
  24. Sean Pa Patriot

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    #12 Jersey

  25. Mogamedogz

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    Re: ot- oh boy this is worse than spygate...

    I don't even think OJ was bigger than Spygate in sports media.
  26. Rob0729

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    Re: ot- oh boy this is worse than spygate...

    I always thought Haley was a paranoid head case and this article confirms this. Why would anyone believe anything Haley said when he chewed Jim Harbaugh out this summer for running up the game in a GD preseason game?

    Haley has some serious mental issues and he probably planted this story to get back at Pioli for firing him. I am sure that Pioli isn't the most fun guy to work for, but tampering with Haley's phone and bugging his offices?
  27. IllegalContact

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    Re: ot- oh boy this is worse than spygate...

    he sounds like he's afraid of his own shadow.......

    who would ever hire this guy again? or is he already in business somewhere?

    does it ever bother you when the automated voice says 'this phone call may be recorded'

    in an NFL front office, why would you not assume you are being bugged anyway? on top of that, you signed on with a GM....why would you not be 100% in that court anyway?

    its one of these things that you should not have anything to worry about unless you are guilty of something.....sounds like he is guilty of something
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2012
  28. nabwong

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    #12 Jersey

    Re: ot- oh boy this is worse than spygate...

    No this is not bigger than spygate, even if true, cos no one gives a rat's ass about Todd Haley. Lol
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2012
  29. Rob0729

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    There is speculation Haley may end up with the Jets. Whoo boy, that could be a problem because Haley might accuse Rex of stealing his sandwich out of the fridge. It might something like this Friends episode:

    5X9 TOW Ross's Sandwich - YouTube
  30. MoLewisrocks

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    I realized early on that Scott had made a HUGE mistake when I saw Haley treating the franchise tagged QB his GM had just traded for and signed to a long term deal publicly like some jag brought in for a competition while the troubled and dropsie prone but talented WR was being talked up. Coaching polar opposite to BB. And Pioli was allowing him to become the one voice in KC. That voice can't be an egotistical loose cannon, that's not how the system works. Then there were the veteran defections like Gonsalez who couldn't get the hell out of there fast enough and eventually Waters (who felt marginalized and scapegoated by the regime - I bet he could tell some tales and I bet he got some references before landing here). Then there was the chaos on offense as Haley fired Gailey on the eve of the season and the whole offense floundered while Matt took an unnecessary beating because Haley didn't want to run the ball even though he had the weapons to. Then Charlie and RAC came in and stabilized the whole thing only to have Charlie bail in a bizarre backwards lateral move. This season with a puppet OC you had Cassel screaming at the sidelines because they couldn't get plays in.

    Like Bill always says, mistakes will kill you. And Pioli made a doozy right out of the gate. He also may have made a mistake in selecting KC as his first solo job too. I get he wanted a stable family owned franchise ripe for a turnaround as his base, but this second generation one came complete with wacko media who worshipped their emotional coaching toadys and a delusional fan base who always saw their return to the glory days as just around the corner. A lot like JETS fans. A total rebuild didn't appeal to them. Haley's arrogance and impatience did. They saw him as opposed to Scott and/or Matt as their savior out of the gate. Save the Schottenheimer/Vermeil tease years when they won a lot except when it mattered - yet remember foldly, they are at 42 years and counting - just a year less than the JETS have been waiting for a return to the Super Bowl.

    They are so disillusioned no one has even updated their Wiki page noting Haley has been fired...LOL I feel for Scott and Matt but in the end we got Josh back and had Scott not gone to KC when he did that likely wouldn't have happened since he probably wouldn't have had any reason to use a #1 on Tebow after jettisoning Cutler.

    Not sure Scott can recover from his first three year coaching mistake in that environment. But he will have other opportunities, which isn't a given for Haley on the heels of this article. Much like Mangini, his reputation as a self absorbed backstabber will prove highly toxic. Which is one reason I'd love for the JETS to give him a shot.
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