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Semi-OT: Greg Cosell - NFL Films - Hammers Ravens receivers

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by DaBruinz, Jan 19, 2012.

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  1. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    RT via Ross Tucker:

    Greg Cosell on Ravens: Never seen a group of WR so unable to beat man coverage" "Their O is so incredibly predictable." "Watching their tape is like watching the 1960's. 1 WR to each side, isolation routes. No bunch sets, rub routes"

    Pretty harsh, imho. But, then the truth generally is..
  2. flynismo

    flynismo Banned

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    These criticisms are all valid. It disgusts me, because Flacco would be producing with the best in the league if he got any help whatsoever.
  3. borg

    borg Rookie

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    When watching Ravens games....Flacco deep down the middle ...incomplete...over and over
  4. Fixit

    Fixit Rookie

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    I'm sorry ... You think Flacco would be putting up numbers like Brady, Brees, Rodgers, Stafford with "help?"

    Am I being punk'd?
  5. Tunescribe

    Tunescribe PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Maybe they keep it simple for him on purpose. Sanchez has the same problem with reads.
  6. Deus Irae

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    Does your boss know that you're drunk on the job?
  7. flynismo

    flynismo Banned

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    Well, maybe not total production, since we still run the ball about 50% of the time. But he would be just as efficient as anyone in the league if he had recievers who could get open, or even make a couple plays every week.

    Or if he had an OC who doesn't constantly send Boldin on 9 routes, rather than using him in the slot where he belongs, for example.

    Put Flacco on the Saints, and I dont think there would be a huge drop off in production. Obviously, Brees is a better QB; he's probably the best QB in the league right now. But I'm simply saying that if Flacco had a better supporting cast, people would not view him the way they do now. The kid is insanely talented, and it is getting wasted.
  8. RealityCheck52

    RealityCheck52 Rookie

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    wow imagine if they were creative.

    14 game Boldin and the Rookie Smith would have had 1,300 yard seasons instead of paltry 800 yard seasons playing 12 games against teams with top 10 defenses.

    As for Ray Rice and the most productive tight-end duo second only to the Patriots.. they could have all gone to the pro-bowl if but for some ability to execute more complex formations..

    :)
  9. flynismo

    flynismo Banned

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    Nah, it is the same with our run game. The one thing more than anything else most Ravens fans want is for Cam to leave town...it is that bad. And I realize almost everyone complains about their OC, but this situation -- well the OP said it best.
  10. Deus Irae

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    He's slow to process the information in front of him, gets nervous in the pocket, and doesn't read short areas particularly well.

    How is that insanely talented?
  11. Fixit

    Fixit Rookie

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    Wow. I admire your positive outlook.

    This begs another question: What is it about Flacco that makes people defend him so vehemently?
  12. ScottieC

    ScottieC Rookie

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    Like the recievers that Brady had in 2006? or in.....ah forget it.
  13. robbomango

    robbomango Rookie

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    They don't get much separation from what I've seen. Bolden doesn't seem to need any, at all.
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2012
  14. flynismo

    flynismo Banned

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    Because you have no clue what you are talking about. Those claims are pretty far off-base.
    Stop listening to Jamie Dukes.
  15. flynismo

    flynismo Banned

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    Did Brady have the garbage OL that we have suffered through the last couple years? Did his recievers rank near the top of the league in drops? Did he have a braindead monkey designing the offense and calling the plays?....ah forget it.
  16. The Brandon Five

    The Brandon Five Rookie

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    I don't care who you are, that's funny right there.

    Awfully big of you to concede that given the records he set this year.

    I think the point you are missing is that the scheme is designed to fit the QB.
  17. Deus Irae

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    I don't listen to Jamie Dukes. I watch the games. You claim to be a Ravens fan. You should try watching your team.

    BTW, you had Ed Reed noting that Flacco was nervous in the pocket and wasn't looking for second reads. Was he just listening to Jamie Dukes?
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2012
  18. flynismo

    flynismo Banned

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    Oh, well since a Pats fan says so about another teams QB because he claims to watch our games too, it must be true.

    Stop listening to Jamie Dukes.
  19. Deus Irae

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  20. flynismo

    flynismo Banned

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    Is that so? Then explain to me why Boldin and Mason (while he was here) were sent on 9 routes constantly, while our lone deep threat (Stallworth) ran more end arounds (5) than he had receptions (2).

    Yes, an offense should be built around the personnel (not just the QB), but Cameron tries to make his players fit into HIS scheme.
  21. everlong

    everlong Rookie

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    While I don't subscribe to him producing at an elite level a Ravens fan on a general NFL board I frequent who isn't a complete homer made a really good case and comparison with Drew Brees and his time spent under Cam Cameron in San Diego. If you gave him a decent receiving core and a decent OC I believe he would be better but not in the class of Brady or Rogers. At least not at this time. Eli is a better QB now than I ever thought he would be and Alex Smith has shown a pulse under better coaching so who knows.

    I will however counter that with this. Every team with with an under performing QB the fan base blasts the OC and to a lesser extent the receivers. Steelers fans all blame Bruce Ariens because it cannot possibly be Ben, etc.
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2012
  22. Tunescribe

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    It's the same reason they put all the blame on the offensive coordinator: because admitting Flacco can't get the job done is the same as admitting they're screwed. Same syndrome in play down in Jersey with the Schottenheimer/Sanchez argument.
  23. robbomango

    robbomango Rookie

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    I've seen a handful of games, Dues is in every gameday thread watching and posting updates. I'm guessing he's watched over 50% of the Ravs games, maybe all who knows.
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2012
  24. Kid~Brady

    Kid~Brady Rookie

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    All of the going back and forth about Brady and Flacco is unwarranted.

    Flacco should be compared to Mark Sanchez, Matt Ryan and Tavaris Jackson.
  25. i82much

    i82much Rookie

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    There is a little bit of truth to everything that is being said here. First, keep in mind that the video we watch really doesn't show us a whole lot about whether receivers are open downfield. There are times when Flacco is looking downfield, does nothing, throws the ball away or takes a sack and that looks bad. Sometimes that's on him - that's what Reed is driving at. On the other hand, guys like Phil Simms are saying Flacco played a heck of a game against Houston. Hard to know without looking at tape and knowing exactly what you are looking for.

    Just keep in mind when you watch Flacco, especially in a game like the Houston game, he is being asked to play things very close to the vest. The number one rule is don't throw a pick. Lots of routes designed for Flacco to throw the ball where only the receiver can get it. Not a lot of throws into tight windows. When he *does* need to step up and put points on the board, he has been pretty successful.

    So a lot of it goes into organizational philosophy too. We've won ugly a lot. Don't turn the ball over, got a good punter, put the defense on the field, win the field position game and win another 17-13 game or whatever.

    On top of that, though, you do have to look at his inconsistency, some really bad numbers in playoff games, the loss to Jacksonville, and ask yourself whether the guy is the real deal. Truth is, it sometimes takes a long time for an NFL QB to reach the top of their game, and until they do people are always going to argue back and forth about whether a guy is going to be any good.

    At the end of the day, the guy put up 3600 yards, only threw 12 interceptions, won 12 games and did put up some big drives when we needed them. For a Ravens fan, my goodness. Compared to Boller, Grbac, Tony Banks???? So there's another reason you'll see us defend him.

    FWIW I don't have any idea how Flacco would do in another offense. I expect his numbers would be bigger but whether he'd start throwing too many picks in a more aggressive scheme is really the big question.
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2012
  26. Fixit

    Fixit Rookie

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    1) I believe Wes Welker (of all people) led the league in drops last year.

    2) You made a point about the Ravens running a lot; they ran it a grand total of 21 times more than NE.

    3) For fun, I looked at the dropoff in production for Evans and Boldin as soon as they got to Baltimore. I'm sure that's coincidental.
  27. condon84

    condon84 Rookie

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    I think it's indicative of the criticisms that Flacco can't read defenses. So they make the offense as simple as possible. Two receivers on one side probably hurts Flacco's head. Three? His head would explode.
  28. Fixit

    Fixit Rookie

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    Here's why I find it silly to blame the OC (pay attention, Jets fans):

    1) The OC knows his QB better than anyone else.

    2) The OC will maximize his QB's strengths and minimize his weaknesses.

    3) The OC's job is dependent on winning games.

    Why on Earth would an OC try to limit his own QB if he knows the QB is capable of much more?
  29. flynismo

    flynismo Banned

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    He catches far more heat and criticism that he deserves.

    Like the Texans game. He played quite well all things considered (how many times did 2 - 3 men crash through our OL at once?), but people just point to the 14 - 27 on pass attempts and say "Meh". Without those 5 drops, he is 19 - 27 with between 250 - 300 yards, 2 TD and 0 INT against a defense that rivals our own.

    I mean when he plays great, like both those Steelers games for example, he gets absolutely ZERO credit. Any other QB manhandles the Steelers like that, or comes up with a last minute, game winning drive against them, you wont hear the end of it.

    Then to top it all off, when he laughs about these things with the media, you have a bunch of ignorant people who call him a whiner.

    The guy just cant win no matter what he does...
  30. Patriot_in_NY

    Patriot_in_NY Rookie

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    This is actually one of the things that I think really favors our defense. Everyone's talking solely about the Ravens D and the Patriots O, when I think the game will hinge on the other match-up Raven O and the Patriots D.

    I think our D matches up well on Flacco in the passing game (and they will have to pass in this game). Ray Rice will have his touch, but he won't be able to carry the offense alone.

    Our offense have feasted on QBs that have go into the "chuck the ball downfield" mode (either by playing catch up or because their QB get hurried). We have 23 Int's this year (3rd in the NFL), most of them on medium to long routes coupled with an inaccurate pass.

    Flacco throws many of those balls and has been less accurate this year than in years past (57% vs. 63% or so). If he has a 2 pick game and gives Brady a few "extra" possessions figure out your defense...... This game will get out of hand for the Ravens in the second half.
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2012
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