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Seinfled helps Explain Ron Pauls stance

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by mcgraw_wv, Sep 2, 2011.

  1. mcgraw_wv

    mcgraw_wv Rookie

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    Many time before I have been asked on this message board to explain Ron Paul's stance on how he could possibly be against the civil rights movement and how that would lead to restaurants for whites and restaurants for others, etc...

    Last night, laying in bed watching Seinfeld, I saw the perfect clip to explain his position.

    Seinfeld On Abortion - YouTube

    You see Ron Paul claims that with the amendment, you didn't get rid of racism, you simply made people hide their ism whatever that may be. As you see in the above clip there was a restaurant full of people willing to hand the owner hundreds of dollars to enjoy his services, all while not knowing that he supports a view point that is completely opposite of their own.

    What this achieves is not equality or fairness, what this does is hides the fact that when you enjoy the services of a restaurants owner who is racist, you support his causes, becuase they take those profits to support their view points.

    In the modern movement, imagine a restaurant owner who despises Gay people. The government tells him them they must allow Gay people in their place of business, so they do, they accept in total 10,000 in net sales from homosexuals over the course of a month, they then take that profit and donate to legislators to ensure that Gay marriage remains illegal.

    In the end, the gay couple enjoy the supposed "right" to eat at an establishment which privately despises them, they hand their money over in exchange for services which results in more support for anti gay propaganda...

    Wouldn't it have been easier if the owner could just state his views on a Door? And then the consumer has all the information and power to decide, "Do I want to support this establishment which doesn't allow Gay to easy here"

    Sure some people would be attracted to that idea, many would shun the business all together, and the most likely result is that business would be at such a competitive disadvantage that they would not be able to compete with other restaurants near by who do not openly discriminate.
  2. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Why does this new age America tolerate same culture neighborhoods, why do we still have "china towns" why do we allow "black neighborhoods" why do we allow "italian neighborhoods" etc etc, why are "Chinese Restaurants" still allowed why are "Italian Restaurants" still allowed why aren't Swedish people called "Sweden Americans" why aren't Greeks called "Greek Americans" why don't we ever see American Indians running elevators on TV Commercials, why are all of these racist things allowed to exist in our new Slobbering American Society.
    :confused::confused::confused:
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2011
  3. chicowalker

    chicowalker Rookie

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    So, ron paul's argument is that he actually wants to help those who would be discriminated against?

    I assumed he took a more libertarian position -- that the owners should have the right to do what they want with their businesses. That's a far more principled position, imo, and a more defensible one.

    One interesting thing about your / Paul's point is that many people get upset when boycotts are organized over social issues. Gays did boycott businesses here in SoCal for helping defeat gay marriage, and a lot of folks on the right screamed foul, that somehow business and politics must be kept separate (when it suits them, obviously).

    I'm not saying you or Paul would feel the same.
  4. mcgraw_wv

    mcgraw_wv Rookie

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    He doesn't want to help or do anything for anyone, including allowing people to do with their business what they wish too, which would include discriminating.


    He and I are 100% confident that if a business came out and said "We will not do business with Gay people", that in the long run, the people who run from doing business with them will so dramatically outnumber the people who flock to do business that the business could not survive.

    Imagine WellsFargo coming out and saying they refuse to do business with Latinos.

    Some people will flock to do business with them, many many more people in my opinion would leave them as they would not want to support that racist viewpoint.

    Ron Paul does not want to force businesses, also known as Private Property, into doing anything they don't want to do.

    It's a Freedom message.

    I was simply using that Clip to showcase what the consumer facing effect of that stance would produce. A valuable bit of information to help you determin where you want to spend your money at.
  5. chicowalker

    chicowalker Rookie

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    right -- as I would have thought (and did say), "...a more libertarian position -- that the owners should have the right to do what they want with their businesses..."
  6. Wolfpack

    Wolfpack Banned

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    The Ron Paul detractors just can't get the understanding to sink in. He's not supporting racism, he's saying that in America you have the right to be a racist if you want to be.

    And fact is that in this day and age, any business that discriminated against black people or Jews or whatever would never survive so the government intervention isn't really necessary.
  7. chicowalker

    chicowalker Rookie

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    Not sure that's true.

    With gay marriage now legal in several states, we've seen businesses refusing to provide services to gay couples marrying. Maybe they'll go out of business or change their ways, but it's not clear yet.

    This isn't as much of an issue, imo, when it's a non-essential business in an urban area.

    But should a gas station in a rural area be able to deny service to a black family driving through, causing them to be stranded? Should blacks or gays be refused food or lodging when they are traveling, as they were 50 years ago?

    Maybe the country has changed enough that those businesses would go out of business, but what if it hasn't? And even if it has, what do you do in the meantime about those blacks, gays, Jews, whoever who can't buy gas, can't get food, don't have anywhere to sleep?

    I understand the principle behind what he says. I'm not sure the reality it would result in is as benign as you and mcgraw make it out to be.
  8. scout

    scout Rookie

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    #15 Jersey

    I lived in a number of rural towns in Texas and I can say without reservation that your theory is wrong.
  9. Wolfpack

    Wolfpack Banned

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    Oh really? What establishments down there engage in systematic discrimination? Please give some specific names of businesses and their discriminatory policies. TIA.
  10. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    McGraw, we understand the ideological purity of Ron Paul and the logic behind it.

    The business owners in the Bible Belt will easily respond to pressure not to serve gays, and gays will be forced to move out. In other areas, this could affect blacks, Muslims, the disabled, Latinos, and so on. It could even affect whites in some areas, though given that whites own most businesses they would probably not be hurt as much.

    But, as far as your point goes, the fact is that when people integrate they tend to lose some of their ignorance and prejudice. Allowing legalized discrimination will lead to ghettoization, force minorities out of some communities, and bring us back to the time when segregation was legal, in the days of Jim Crow.
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2011
  11. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Ron Paul doesn't support racism but wants to protect racism. That's racist.
  12. Wolfpack

    Wolfpack Banned

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    Bullcrap. The truest measure of a free society is willing to allow opinions different than your own. For example, I personally despise the KKK but I support the right to free speech, even when it extends to those whom I find reprehensible maggots.

    I know you personally believe in, support and even practice censorship as much as you can. I assure you, the civilized world does not share your beliefs.
  13. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Isn't ther some kind of saying that is connected to all this

    "I don't agree with him but I will fight to the death for his right to say it"
  14. Wolfpack

    Wolfpack Banned

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    Excellent point. Of course, the liberal motto is "I don't agree with him therefore I will make his viewpoint illegal, censor him and call him a racistsexisthomophobebigotetcetcetc."
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2011
  15. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I'm glad to hear you don't like the KKK. I'm all for free speech, in fact that's why you have not been banned or suspended. That said, I support free speech but not active engagement in oppression and discrimination. My point has nothing to do with the right to free speech. I believe in letting small minded bigots -- even homophobes -- speak their mind, but I don't support them being able to use their economic or political power to discriminate, as was the case prior to the Civil Rights Act of 1964 as well as Lawrence v. Texas, which declared it illegal for the Texas police to go into someone's home and arrest them for being gay.
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2011
  16. scout

    scout Rookie

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    #15 Jersey

    LAUGH MY F'N ASS OFF! I lived in Mexia,Texas and Palestine, Texas. Mexia had one of the worst racial incidents in the history of the state a number of years before I lived there. The town was divided and blatant racism existed, in business and in general. Palestine was in East Texas, just miles from another historic racist incident in that state. I worked in a school district and the superintendent would routinely cite the "n" word while I was in his company. Quite honestly, I could give a rat's ass if you believe me or not. To take the position that no business establishment in the deep south has "systematic discrimination" is laughable. Lived it, seen it, and no, I will not provide a link. I don't think it would change your perception.
  17. Wolfpack

    Wolfpack Banned

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    I asked you for an example and you didn't provide one. You just gave a nonsensical and hysterical response.

    :rofl: :rofl: That's what we call you getting pwned. :rofl: :rofl:
  18. Wolfpack

    Wolfpack Banned

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    Actually I've been banned several times on a thread-to-thread basis and also been suspended a couple of times. But why let facts get in the way?
    So what would you say if a guy had a restaurant and a couple of fellas wearing klan robes sat down at a table, and suppose that guy said "your views are reprehensible and disgusting and I don't want you in my establishment - get the **** out!" Guess what? He's discriminating against the klansmen based on their political beliefs.

    Now should the restaurant owner be able to do that or no?
    Non sequitur. You're talking about the government, not private entities, by bringing up the police. I am not surprised you don't understand why your analogy is epic fail though.
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2011
  19. scout

    scout Rookie

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    #15 Jersey

    I rest my case.
  20. Wolfpack

    Wolfpack Banned

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    In order to rest your case you need to actually make one first, and you haven't even done that.

    You went into hysterics saying systematic discrimination happens in a certain place and I asked for examples and you went into even further hysterics - without ever actually giving us any supporting evidence.

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