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Secondary Issues: Is it the players or the play-calling?

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by tombonneau, Nov 24, 2008.

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  1. tombonneau

    tombonneau Rookie

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    So I'm sure I'm not alone in feeling that this season I've seen enough 3rd-and-longs completed to wide open receivers for first downs to last me until the end of the decade.

    My question is, when these guys are so clearly wide open -- not getting individually beat like Hobbs was on the deep pass to start the second half where it was just a good pass, good catch and mediocre coverage -- is this a fault of the players, the defense called, or a combination of both?

    I can't imagine these are all just blown assignments where DBs or LBs are simply not even in the same zip code as the receivers. It would appear that teams are just IDing what the zone is the Pats are setting up in and just picking it apart.

    Of course, I don't sit down and breakdown film, so I really have no idea, but I'm curious what others thoughts are?
  2. maverick4

    maverick4 Banned

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    We can't play bump and run because our corners are too small. Bump and run gives more time for a pass rush and screws up the QB's timing, leading to more potential int's.
  3. emoney_33

    emoney_33 Rookie

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    Do you always just pick one thing to harp on and repeat it incessantly in multiple threads?

    I'm pretty damn sure bump and run isn't the only way to effectively play pass defense and it takes a whole lot more than simply having big strong CB's...
  4. maverick4

    maverick4 Banned

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    When 10 threads all pop up about the same topic, without any merging going on, then yes I will repeat points I made since it's an identical topic.
  5. E Belichick Unum

    E Belichick Unum Rookie

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    We can't play bumb and run because our corners suck, being too small has nothing to do with it.
  6. Fencer

    Fencer Rookie

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    We have 7 or so guys in coverage yet Sanders gets singled on a rookie WR, who eats him alive.

    I think multiple things are wrong with that picture.
  7. xmarkd400x

    xmarkd400x Rookie

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    Its the players. No coach, even Vince Lombardi, could coach our secondary into a league leading pass defense.
  8. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #50 Jersey

    Thank you for your worthless opinion. I have news for you. The Pats corners don't suck. They could, very well, play bump and run. For whatever reason, the coaching staff is not having them do it. Honestly, playing off the receivers has cost the Pats a lot more than playing a tighter package would. At some point the Pats have to realize that the inexperience of the guys there isn't as much of an issue.
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2008
  9. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Devone Bess was singled up against Vrabel more often than not. And Bess ate him alive. The Pats rarely came out of their base defense in the 1st half of the game. When they finally did start using the Nickel package in the 2nd half, they weren't playing tight enough on the receivers.
  10. JoeSixPat

    JoeSixPat Rookie

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    Even Belichick admitted that the 3rd and long conversion allowed was just flat out bad... typically he put the primary onus on "coaching" - though I have a tough time believing that Dean Peas is calling for schemes designed to give 11 yards of space to a WR on a 3rd and 10 situation.

    More likely Bill's admission that the "coaching" is lacking references an inability to get the guys to execute the schemes as designed.

    I'd have to think Pittsburgh, even with an offense that's struggling, would want to see if they can make some big plays by testing the secondary. We'd better hope they're less successful than Miami because I think we're going to have a pretty tough time scoring 40 points against the Steelers
  11. E Belichick Unum

    E Belichick Unum Rookie

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    Let's look at what this bump and run, mano en mano group has done.

    Is there a third and 15 that hasn't been made this year?
    Has Ellis Hobbles made a play in the past 4 weeks?
    Has Deltha O'Neil covered his man during that time?
    Has Sanders done anything except bounce off of a reciever in the open because he refused to wrap him up?

    The only positive has been Brandon Merriwether, and he has been just OK.

    I am as huge a fan as there is, but I have to look at this team and try to understand why. The why is our secondary. A pass rush would certainly help, but the front seven's job is to contain and stop the run in a 3 4 style defense. The outside linebackers have been disappointing, but for the most part they have stopped the opposition's running game and that is their primary job. It is the secondary's job to keep the plays in front of them and occasionally break up a pass or two. Ellis Hobbs is the most frustrating person on the field. He talks to press like an all pro, but plays like a sandlot corner, and sometimes that is being kind. Deltha O'Neil is horrible, but at least he has good hands. The rookies are rookies and playing like rookies. The safeties, a position I thought would be a strength, have been just OK. Merriwether has been up and down, he has shown some hands and anticipation, but he doesn't have the attitude and willingness to blow up recievers coming across the middle. Without having to look over their shoulders, recievers are killing us in the middle seam of the zone. Frank Sanders has been horrible. Is there another bad angle he can find to miss a tackle on? Is there another WR he can hit high and bounce off of?

    I can't lay all of the blame on the secondary, but I will give them 70% of it. Belichick won't play bump and run because his secondary can't cover man to man. If they could, he would be able to send more blitzes at the QB. Belichick has done a great job this year, the best I can remember, but he blew it when he put together this secondary.
  12. Leave No Doubt

    Leave No Doubt PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Last night Troy made a comment on Sports Tonight implying almost the same thing. I wish I saw the whole thing but he said the players should approach BB and ask him if they could go more man to man because they felt they really could get their guy. So maybe the D's in a kind of developmental process much like our offense has been,and if that's the case what we're seeing is going to change each week as BB sees improvement/development from the rookies. I hope that's the case cuz if it is, our D could come into their own at just the right time :)
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