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Second rounders are...

Discussion in 'Patriots Draft Talk' started by b72s, Jan 17, 2010.

  1. b72s

    b72s On the Game Day Roster

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    are volume over quality

    Are we not a team without Playmakers???

    but that's what 1st rounders are!!!

    but we could have had

    Percy Harvin and a few LBs. A little post shoulda, woulda & coulda

    Is this the year we trade up???.. Not before CBA cleared up

    Bummer!!!

    Yes I like that McClain, Alabama Backer too but too high a pick for Pats
     
  2. TriplecHamp

    TriplecHamp Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    #24 Jersey

    Re: Second Rounders are....

    CJ spiller might not require a trade up.
     
  3. Garbanza

    Garbanza In the Starting Line-Up

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    Re: Second Rounders are....

    This second round is telling me the talent level in the first round sucked. Yup, Pats included :(
     
  4. TriplecHamp

    TriplecHamp Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    #24 Jersey

    Re: Second Rounders are....

    You can always tell who didnt even read the OP.:rolleyes:
     
  5. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Disable Jersey

    Re: Second Rounders are....

    So you don't like the potential of Butler, Chung and Vollmer, then?
     
  6. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: Second Rounders are....

    And your point is?

    There are lots of elite talents and playmakers taken in the 2nd round. Some examples to the contrary:

    - Sebastian Vollmer, probably the best OT in the 2009 draft, taken #58 in the 2nd round.
    - Michael Roos, pro bowl OT, taken #41 in the 2nd round in 2005.
    - Maurice Jones-Drew, pro bowl RB and one of the most dynamic playmakers in the NFL, taken #60 in 2006.
    - Ray Rice, pro bowl RB and one of the most dynamic playmakers in the NFL, taken #55 in the second round in 2008.
    - DeSean Jackson, pro bowl WR and one of the most dynamic playmakers in the NFL, taken #49 in the second round in 2008.
    - Vincent Jackson, pro bowl WR, taken #61 in the second round in 2005.
    - Anquan Boldin, pro bowl WR, taken #54 in the second round in 2003.
    - Sidney Rice, leading WR target for the Vikings, taken #44 in the second round in 2007.
    - Osi Umeniyora, pro bowl DE pass rusher, taken #56 in the second round in 2003.
    - Lofa Tatupu, pro bowl ILB, taken #45 in the second round in 2005.
    - LaMarr Woodley, pro bowl OLB, taken #46 in the second round in 2007.
    - David Harris, pro bowl ILB, taken #47 in the second round in 2007.
    - Jarius Byrd, pro bowl S who led the NFL in interceptions this year, taken #42 in the second round in 2009.

    Lots of other examples. We could have taken a shot at many of those playmakers. We traded back from #64 in 2005 when Vincent Jackson was within reach. We passed on Anquan Boldin for Bethel Johnson. We could have gone after LaMarr Woodley with #28 in 2007. We could have traded up to go after DeSean Jackson in 2008 when we fell to the 2nd round. We could have taken Maurice Jones-Drew at 52 in 2006 instead of Laurence Maroney at 21.

    There are plenty of playmakers and difference makers in the 2nd round. Just like the first round, the problem is finding the right ones.
     
  7. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    Re: Second Rounders are....

    You really need to look at the busts in the first round also instead of cherry picking a few successes. There's some guys I'd have loved to trade up for over the years but two second rounders gives you good value for a first round pick. The Patriots almost always get good value for their trades down; they just have to draft a little better when they make the picks.
     
  8. convertedpatsfan

    convertedpatsfan PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #12 Jersey

    Re: Second Rounders are....

    Second rounders are often guys climbing up the boards that got overlooked earlier in the process, or else potential 1st round picks who fell out for whatever reason. But most people expect some type of impact from picks in the first 3 rounds.

    Most of the draft analysis I read last year was that it was a draft with very little "elite" talent at the top, but really deep in terms of guys who graded as 2nd/3rd round picks. BB agreed, and went after value.
     
  9. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: Second Rounders are....

    Good second round picks are tremendously cost-effective. You have a good probability of getting a solid player and sometimes a spectacular one, at very reasonable cost compared with a first rounder. And the penalty for missing isn't nearly as severe.

    I'd be happy to build a team of 2nd round picks based on the past 6 years, and put it up against a team of 1st round picks:

    QB: Chad Henne (2007)
    RB: Maurice Jones-Drew (2006), Ray Rice (2008)
    WR: Vincent Jackson (2005), DeSean Jackson (2008), Greg Jennings (2006)
    TE: Anthony Fasano (2006), Tony Scheffler (2006)
    OT: Michael Roos (2005), Sebastian Vollmer (2009)
    OG/C: Chris Snee (2004), Justin Smiley (2004), Jake Grove (2004), Deuce Lutui (2006), Justin Blalock (2007), Max Unger (2009)

    DT: Shaun Cody (2005)
    DE: Igor Olshansky (2004), Jason Jones (2008)
    OLB: LaMarr Woodley (2007), Karlos Dansby (2004, can also play ILB)
    ILB: David Harris (2007), Lofa Tatupu (2005), DeMeco Ryans (2006), Curtis Lofton (2008), Rey Maualuga (2009)
    S: Bob Sanders (2004), Jarius Byrd (2009), Louis Delmas (2009)
    CB: Richard Marshall (2006), Kelvin Hayden (2005)

    ST: Devin Hester (2006)

    Not a bad group.
     
  10. muzz

    muzz PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: Second Rounders are....

    I'd take a CuMar in the 2nd anyday......nevermind the THIRD!!!
     
  11. satz

    satz 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    Re: Second Rounders are....

    I was here when every one and there gradma were posting saying what an idiots eric mangini is for trading all his picks for 3 picks in 07 and how BB trading around had taken some 12 picks

    we have 1 player brandon merriweather from 2007 and the Jets got
    revis , david harris [ILB this guy is a bargain he is mayo like and 2nd rd pick] and some backup DL guy.

    quantity vs quality i want one of those brillant guys who called mangini an idiot how he feels about that draft.
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2010
  12. R_T26

    R_T26 Banned

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    Re: Second Rounders are....

    Belichick should maybe stop reaching for guys and

    that may help. Last few years it feels as if every pick was followed by BB must know something, then these guys turn out to be duds.

    How many of us watch the draft with our draft magazines, the pats make a pick and the guy was picked about 4 rounds early.

    Wheatley projected 6th rnd wilhite was rookie free agent. Looks like scouts inc knew more then bb there.

    Boldin was a proven college player, most people didnt know who bethel was.
    Sometimes the pats overthink.

    Imagine if chung just stays a STeamer. Thats a waste for a 33rd pick especially considering you know the pats saw plenty of film of his teamate who became a pro bowler this year.

    Just pray bb doesnt pick another te high then decide to keep him in as a blocker, just like paying big fa money to a double digit pass rusher and deciding to use him as a ILB.
     
  13. Yfz01

    Yfz01 Practice Squad Player

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    Re: Second Rounders are....

    I think the Patriots are extremely lucky to have so many 2nds in such a talented draft class. It will be hard to swing and miss on four first day picks. In a normal draft, most of these guys taken in the 2nd would probably be first rounders.
     
  14. b72s

    b72s On the Game Day Roster

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    Re: Second Rounders are....

    I do not disagree with any of the posts here whther finding value vs. risk of 1st round bust but leaders are found either in first round, born with it or through longer term development

    1st Rounders

    Mayo
    Wilfork
    Seymour
    McGinest
    Ty Law

    Developed/System

    Bruschi
    Vrabel
    Brown

    Maybe Brace/butler/edelmen

    Matured/Born with it
    Brady
    Welker
    Maybe Chung, Vollmer

    I do not dislike last year's picks at all but they will take time and this year's contributions ok but not game changers.....

    Just griping about not having a impact player with immediate starter capability from 2009 ..Vollmer is but was not used

    albeit Mayo was/is just hurt

    Praying for one in Draft
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2010
  15. HEY BRO! WHAT UP?

    HEY BRO! WHAT UP? Banned

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    Re: Second Rounders are....

    This is so funny, yet so true. I was screaming Terrell Thomas in the second round, but the Pats prefer fast midgets at CB. I also have a strange feeling that Chung will end up as a career special teamer.

    To add insult to injury, Harris is way better than Mayo.
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2010
  16. Ochmed Jones

    Ochmed Jones Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    #12 Jersey

    Re: Second Rounders are....

    Guys BB's drafting philosophy has not changed much in the last half decade:

    1st round - Draft 3 down players that require as little projecting as humanly possible into his system. BB has a tremendous success rate in the first round.

    2nd round - Draft players with some degree of risk but huge ceilings that project well in our system. BB has only about a 60% success rate in this round, but this grade could change based on how the 2009 class shakes out.

    3rd round - Draft system type guys. Guys that possess the skills sets to project well in our system. BB has a miserable non-compensation record in this round. Who can forget the horrible Brock Williams. He had quick twitch and BB loves quick twitch,forget that the guy could not cover a fire hydrant.

    When putting together a BB mock,you have to ask yourself.

    1.) Does this particular player fit in our system? Size, measurables, character, intangibles, Intelligence, etc. etc.etc.
    2.) How many downs can this player play in the base offense/defense?
    3.) How much projecting is involved with this player. The BB rule of thumb is the more projecting the lower the round.

    A perfect example of these three things coming together is Vollmer.

    1.) Did Vollmer fit our system? Yes, size, measurables, intangibles, character and intelligence.
    2.) Is Vollmer a three down player? Yes, no doubt.
    3.) Did BB have a lot of projecting to do with Vollmer? No, BB saw everything he needed to see on tape regarding Vollmer's performance.

    So while the draft guides had Vollmer as a fifth or sixth, BB takes Vollmer in the second. Why? Because that was where he slotted on BB's draft board. (Plus I think another team was hot for Vollmer as well.)

    A perfect example of these three things not coming together is Chad Jackson.

    1.) Did Jackson fit our system. Yes,all the measurables were perfect.
    2.) Is Jackson a three down player? No, WR's in BB system are rotation players.
    3.) Did BB have a lot of projecting to do with Jackson? Yes, Jackson never ran option routes in college. In fact the Florida ran a non-pro style offense, so there were a lot of variables involved in whether or not Jackson could a.) read a defense or b.) run the correct option route.

    So BB assumed the risk of having to teach Jackson a pro style offense versus the potential high reward (Jackson could have been a Pro Bowl WR, if he was smart enough to learn option routes.)
     
  17. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: Second Rounders are....

    This staTement doesn't become true because you repeat it.

    Wilfork and Warren are not 3 down players.

     

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